Episode 46: People Pleasing and Parenting with Andee Martineau, Part 1

Andee Martineau and I have a long history together. She introduced me to coaching. She has 6 kids and I have 5. We home-schooled our kids together and have a common religious background. She’s a true friend who’s been there for me and is along for the ride. Parenting is a hard job and learning how to stay healthy, balance, and manage everything life throws at us is a lifelong process. We can develop the skills to regulate our nervous system, handle what life throws at us, and stop people pleasing while parenting, as well as creating future people pleasers. 


Find Andee here:
https://connectmethodparenting.com/
https://www.instagram.com/andeemartineau/
https://www.facebook.com/connectmethod

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!

Transcript

0:51

You are listening to the Ex Good Girl podcast episode forty six. Angie, go ahead and introduce yourself. Yeah. So my name is Andy Martineau. I am a mom of six. Uh, I always say Covering Yeller, but also, I would say recovering people pleaser. I mean, it's funny because Yeller is, like, what I would say, like, authoritative parenting if you're, like, To ask if I encourage you guys, but people pleasing is is the passive, and I vacillated between both extremes. So That's my background. I have my degree in nursing. I'm a a lover of all things developmental psychology and attachment theory, lover of all of learning. I just, like, constantly learn. I'm so honored and privileged that I get to help parents that are ready to Change up their lives by changing the way they parent, and such an honor. It's such a privilege to be able to Be in this position now. I love what I do. So that's a little bit about me. Yeah. Oh, did I say six kids? Six kids, fifteen to twenty three. So we've gone through a lot of stages. Toddler, baby. Lots lots of stages. Now he's an adult. So and I know you have too. So a lot of similarities between us. So, Sarah, tell us about you. Give us some background. Um, Sarah Bybee Fisk, mom of five. Andy is actually the one who introduced me to coaching. I remember that, Dim. You're sitting in your kitchen. That? Yes. I do. I was sitting in my kitchen. We were at my house today, And you were saying, I think maybe I'll go back to school to be a psychologist, I think, right, or something. And I'm like, oh, yeah. I think you should listen to some of these Podcast. Like, this would be a really fun thing. I'm gonna do coaching. Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna do this with with training and So you in. One of the things that is, I think, really special about our relationship is that it has mirrored we've gone just gone through so many. Angie and I actually used to homeschool our kids together And spent a lot of time teaching and learning from each other in, you know, groups that we would create. And then I remember that kitchen conversation. You're like, have you heard about this thing called the life coaching. And she got certified, and then shortly thereafter, I got certified, and here we are. What a journey. I wish we could go back and just peek in on that conversation and who we are now versus then. I've heard you talk about this on On some videos you put out, just how different you are every year. I've evolved. I've changed. I can't even imagine that I would have had this life a few years ago. I love that. That's aligned to what I want too. So it'd be fun to see our versions of ourselves then and where we are now. Yeah. And one of the things that I appreciate most about our Friendship is that through every iteration of me or, like, we are me? Are you? Like, we have a we have a common religious background, and I am no longer practicing. That's never been an issue or a problem for you. You've talked me through, You know, lots of the the painful parts about that. And and so, I mean, we're gonna talk about people pleasing and parenting. Yes. But the other thing that I want to just say is that to have friends who are accepting of you at every stage is such a gift. And I feel like I have many of those, but you're definitely one. So I just am so appreciative of that. I feel the same towards you. Yeah. Some people, it's hard for them to see you change. They want you to stay where you are. And so it is really beautiful to and that's okay. Like, there's nothing wrong with that, but it is nice to have someone who's Also, just they're along for the ride. Like, whatever happens, I'm here. Coming with you. It doesn't matter. A lot of the people who listen to my podcast are parents. Mhmm. And I'm sure they're just wondering, how did you land on parenting coaching? I would say because I really had a hard time parenting. It was a challenge for me, and I think anytime we become aware of something that's challenging for us. We're not satisfied with where we we're landing there, at least for me in my life, but I think most humans. Right? It's really easy to go and say, okay. I gotta figure this out. And so that is a lifelong journey. I will never say I figured the parenting out. It was a priority for me. It mattered a lot to me to get parenting right. I left my career as a nurse to be a parent. I left a lot of things behind, And then we homeschooled together, so that is a whole thing in and of itself. Learning how to stay healthy as a parent, like, stay differentiated And to be able to just figure that out, that's what led to it. I really struggled. I had six kids in eight years, so it was just a lot. And I really failed at first. And so anything I could grasp on to, you know, if I could find something that was helpful, That's how I got there. So really by being a big fat failure. Not really. I don't really believe in failure, but, you know, like, feeling like it just it wasn't natural. It wasn't natural. So if someone's thinking, oh, I'm just not patient or I'm just not, you know, compassionate or it can be developed. Yeah. We can develop it. Thank goodness. I'm a testimony of that. Yeah. So I have the same question for you. Like, people pleasing, it's such a cool thing to talk about. I don't hear that many people Call it out so specifically as something to talk about. So, yeah, tell us more. Like, what led you there? Yeah. If we're gonna talk about just being a big fat failure and, again, I I feel the same way. There isn't a failure. Maybe you're just I was definitely getting an unwanted result. Right? I was just continually feeling boxed in, Held hostage by other people's decisions, feeling like I was the victim of, you know, all of these things happening Side of me looking around outside of me for signs that I was doing it right and that I was, you know, worthy of praise. And so Just it really started with how do I unravel this for myself? Like, I just can't stand to live this way anymore. And at the time, I will tell you, I didn't even I didn't even really know for sure what it was. But the minute I identified, oh, this Constant worrying about what other people think of you, this inability to make a decision because you're always upset about or wondering who's gonna be upset. This anxiety about disappointing other people, this inability to to say no to things, That's people pleasing. And so it same. Being a big fan here. Yeah. I mean, it's a big pain point. It's like, I don't like this. It's huge. And I've gotta figure this out. And I think we both took different journeys to figure that out, but Understanding what was happening in our bodies, our nervous system, our emotions, uh, so many levels, right, of that to just Work through it. I have to tell you a story. There's this trail by my house. Yes. I'm walking. I walk in almost every day because I'm trying to get my steps in, ten thousand steps a day. And I run into somebody. I'm not gonna say any names. Anyway, it's been just a tricky situation. I think this is the epitome of feeling The success, it's not arrogance. It's just this, like, wow, I've regulated my nervous system and neutralized this situation because I was able to have this conversation, And my palms weren't sweating. My heart wasn't beating fast. You know, all of the the visceral reactions that happen when you're in a situation that makes you Nervous or I've come to now say unsafe, where you kinda just for whatever reason, even though it's not literal danger, your body nervous system feels unsafe. And I was able to just have the most beautiful conversation that ended up kinda spiraling into a couple of other things last night. And I thought this is Perfect. On the cusp of us talking about people pleasing, and I feel like this individual was someone I was very people pleasing to. Like, I felt like I needed to please them a lot, and there was a lot of unhealthy things tied up in this. And to feel like, oh, I don't I'm not feeling that way. And then you know what Actually, it was the best part is I came home, and I was getting ready for bed. And I had this realization of and it was so kind and compassionate Of how I had contributed to the situation by how I had viewed it. And if I could go back in the version I am now, Then it wouldn't have even happened. It wouldn't have gone down that way, but I I learned exactly what I needed. I'm so grateful for it. I have no angst about it at all. Anne, I can see oh, you totally contributed to this by how people pleasing you were and how dependent you were on their validation. And so I don't know. If someone's listening to this, like, you're in the throes of feeling controlled by other people or you wanna please other people. Like, it You just stick with this work, and Sarah is the best guide to just help you get to the other side of it. And when you reach that place, it's, Uh, you feel just like a new person. Like, I'm not that person anymore that's that there. And that's so fun. I'm sure you get that with people all of Time where they're like, yes. Like, I confronted this. That would have been so scary. Yes. It's so interesting because what I teach my clients is that People pleasing is baked into the experience. There's not a way to avoid being programmed to be a people pleaser. And Yes. I'd love to run this by you, and I'll just do a quick and dirty explanation, then you get your parenting take on it. So a baby comes into the world Completely unable to take care of itself. It is dependent on the caregivers, what I call the big people. And so All it has is this primally programmed cry. Right? And so it cries, baby cries, and then someone comes, changes the diaper, feeds it Right? I think an interesting corollary to this is there are lots of stories of orphanages where there are not enough people taking care of babies, and the most common outcome is babies stop Crying because they just know no one is coming. So before there's even language literally high. Yeah. It's just such a clear connection between needing Care and survival. And so the way that a baby's brain works is it doesn't even have language, But it has this connection between I do something and someone comes and takes care of me. I cry and I get my needs met. I Do, you know, this thing, and then someone comes in, and I feel so much better. And then they start gathering information about what the big people do in to them. Not even knowing yet that they are a separate like, in a separate body. They don't even understand that they're a separate being at this point, But we've all seen the videos of, you know, the baby starts to smile and then mom or dad or caregiver's like, oh my gosh. They're smiling. They're smiling. So their face lights up, and then baby smiles bigger, and then mom and dad smile bigger. And so baby's brain is gathering information. They like that. Like that like that, I got a really good reaction for that, and so I'm gonna do that more. Baby grows up and is gathering information about when do I get My needs met. When do I get picked up? When do I get hugged? When do I get fed? I'm gonna do more of what gets me that. And then when they are old enough to understand Punishment. I'm kinda doing that in in quotes because or consequences. Like, I remember, all kids go through, like, a slapping hitting phase. Right? And so One of my kids would slap me, and I would say no and put them down. Right? Separate them from me so that they couldn't slap me anymore. And baby understands, oh, that's bad. I shouldn't do that, or I like that. Right? I'm gonna and some babies are encouraged by that, But I think a lot it's not hard to understand that as they gather information about what gets rewarded and what gets punished Mhmm. There is emphasis on doing what gets them the rewards that they want. Yeah. What do you think about that? Yeah. I think it's survival at that point. I mean, we are we know we have this instinct, this unconscious instinct that we need an adult to take care of us or we're gonna die. And Yes. And a lot of unhealthy behaviors can be developed, especially if the parent is struggling or Developmentally not as emotionally mature as they could be that they play right into it. And, yeah, there's, like, some massive Not not necessarily I mean, it could be capital t trauma, but just those little micro traumas of the child Fearing separation, which is fearing safety in life. And so if the parent doesn't realize what's happening, which a lot of us don't realize what's happening. I did not realize the importance of that feeling of them feeling safe and attached to me and how to properly Help them also not hit me. I would Yeah. Not respond in a way that would continue to have that attachment while they were And needing to learn how to behave differently. But when we are even more clueless, which most of us just aren't grown up, we don't grow up with this Rich understanding of the nervous system and people pleasing is you know, it's a nervous system reaction. And so, yeah, we can learn Something that's meant to be could be, ideally, I think, doesn't necessarily have to turn into people pleasing, but A lot of times does exactly what you're saying because we use it in a way that to feel safe. Yeah. And to get our needs met. And it comes with us through the rest of our life if we don't address it. And I think that's a really important topic To really discuss about people pleasing and parenting and just as a parent being a people pleaser and how that affects your parenting, how that affects your child's developmental process. Because When you're not aware of it, you don't you don't know what you don't know. But, yeah, it makes total sense that we would grow up trying to get The validation from other people. Because we do start out really actually needing it, but we should grow out of it. Yeah. That's the thing. It's when the prefrontal cortex comes in And both hemispheres are integrated and used in the way that they should be as we become emotionally mature. We should be able to have the logic and reason to grow out of it, And a lot of us just don't. The way I tend to think about it, tell me what you think of this, is just we're not taught to. We're not taught that it's okay To disappoint your parents. In fact, you should and you will disappoint them as you differentiate as a human. You become separate person with different wants and needs. And so this dependence on them and the way that they meet our needs for us And the way that we rely on them sets up the whole people pleasing relationship and component. And then I think it's as simple as we're just never taught to not please and what that process feels like. What do you think? Thinking about this conversation we're gonna have, I made a list of some of the things That increased people pleasing in children, and one of them on my list is making them feel bad for disagreeing or not leaving any space for them to disagree. I think the reason most parents have a hard time with this is because it's threatening. We really are not comfortable with our kids disagreeing. We feel so little con we wanna feel in control of Parenting. We feel so little control of it, especially as they become older and they become more capable of doing whatever they want regardless of our preferences. That them disagreeing feels scary, but I talk about with parents I work with the importance of Learning how to leave space for them to disagree. You can even set parameters with your kids to say, here's proper ways to disagree. Even having that conversation, even if that might feel a little stringent at first, at least they're getting the message that, oh, there is a way for me to To not just be a yes man for mom without getting a lot of repercussions that are unintended. So, yeah, if you want your head to be a people pleaser, don't let them disagree with you. That's a surefire way to to help them just stay in that pattern. You're saying that, and I just wrote down. Like, when my kids were little, I loved them the best I could, but a hundred percent, I valued compliance And obedience. Yes. I would poach my kids to say, yes, mom. Yes, mom. Hey. Will you do the dishes? Yes, mom. In a cheerful little repetitive voice, just like that. And disagreeing Was I actually thought if I let them disagree, then I'm a bad parent. Right? Right. What I should be training them for is to be compliant, to do what I asked them to do. And it's just so interesting because now what I say is, hey. What's your plan for the dishes? Mhmm. Right? And if you have a plan for the dishes, great. If you need my help coming up with a plan, great. It's not that you're not gonna do the dishes. Right. But I have a little bit more Generosity for the fact that you might have your own plan, and I'm just checking in. Right. I love that. So different. Yeah. It's so interesting. So you have the like, not allowing them to disagree with you and then rewarding them for being compliant. It's like Yes. Right? And what you're saying is I'm not gonna reward them for being compliant. We're not gonna be heartless and not celebrate wins. I'm not saying that. But we're not gonna give them rewards for being compliant or make them feel bad for disagreeing. Like, those are two sides of the same coin to me. Because, like, rewarding for compliance And making them feel bad for disagreeing are the reward punishment cycle. Right? And so they're only going to Stick to whatever plan you want them to do. Wash the dishes. If they're getting rewarded for being compliant instead of them And what you do is you rob them of the ability for them to be compliant because they want to be compliant. And I use a phrase because they want to listen to you. That's very different than I got them to listen to me. I got them to do the dishes. Do they want to do the dishes for you? If they don't, let's look there. Because there's something there. There's some information there. I just wanted to recap because it was so good. So punishing if they disagree, rewarding for compliance. Yes. Getting angry with their behavior frequently, that's another form of people pleasing. Right? I I need you to behave a certain way. And if not, I'm gonna be disappointed or I'm gonna be frustrated or I'm gonna be upset or I'm gonna be yeah. Fill in the blank. That's another way if you wanna get your child these are kinda like the the anti things you wanna do. But if you wanna your child to be a really good people pleaser, you know, Let them know how disappointed you are about their behavior. Another one that just came to mind that might already be on your list is blaming them for your behavior. Yes. You made me so mad. Yes. I mean okay. I'm just gonna tell on myself this entire podcast because I would tell my kids, like, you don't listen unless I'm angry, mom. Like, I don't like this, but I have to do it because you don't listen. And so I would blame my anger and my yelling on them. Like, I tried my nice voice, and nobody listened. So Gotta pull out the the yeller to get anything done. I gotta get you to be people pleasers. And it's your fault. Are you guys not follow finding following this agenda? You're gonna start with me, and then you're gonna people please everyone in your life because I've showed you so well how to do this. Yeah. That my emotions are your fault. And if they're your fault, you have to fix it. You have to be the one to change. Uh. Side note on the yelling. I was a yeller, and I had a lot of anger about my inability to control things and make them happen exactly the way I wanted them to. And when I finally decided yelling have I ever told you this? I think I have. I would pay my kids if I yelled at them. I told them, if I yell at you, I owe you I think it was, like, fifty dollars, which is, like, a lot of money. And so I remember one of my kids one time, I yelled, and he was like, mom, does this mean you owe me fifty dollars? I'm like, yes. Yes. But you know what? It worked for me. I am not saying that is the Andy Martineau approved method. Well, I just love how you were so onto yourself. I just wanted so desperately to stop. And some of our funniest memories are like Getting yelled at and then getting paid fifty dollars while I was lost you while I was on. Really learning how to, yeah, how to regulate myself. That's what the real issue was is that I did not know how to regulate and be with those emotions. And so if you are a child Who is raised with a parent who does not have good emotional regulation skills, you got this message a lot that their emotions were your fault and you should fix it. You should do something about it. And that's where this FAWN, f a w n, The nervous system response of, like, trying to please, trying to calm down, trying to make it better, trying to fix it. That's what a lot of people experience. Yeah. And if you're hearing this and you're the one still yelling, also realize it makes total sense that you're yelling. I'm not saying you wanna stick with it forever, but be so kind to yourself because you're yelling because you feel unsafe. Right? And so be really gentle with yourself. Get help. Like, reach out to someone to help you learn how to start to navigate that and how to Disentangle a lot of what society has told us to because we get that reinforced a lot that, yeah, this person does this thing, and I feel this way because of them. And it translates right into our kids. Only problem is our kids are so little, and they're not our equal as far as, Like, their ability to navigate the world. So it's a really an unfair fight because they really can't even fight back. And they're dependent on us for stuff, so they they're a lot of times, we'll Fawn, fawn, fawn right back at us and try to people please us. But but know that it's I mean, we both we're both recovering yellers or recovered yellers, reformed yellers. That's what I like to say. It just tells you that that's that's where you're at, and you can move out of it. And Yeah. Yeah. Feel those emotions. That's one of the things That was on my list too. It goes along with what you said is minimizing our children's emotions. A lot of times, that comes because we're minimizing our own emotions or we're not Being attentive to our own emotions. We get so uncomfortable with let's say our kids are fighting, and there's somewhere down the line, we got the message From someone or something. We interpreted something that that fighting is bad. Maybe we got this idea that contention is of the devil or or conflict is bad or whatever. Right? Or maybe our parents had a really with it. And so we hear our kids do it, and we go into full fight or flight. We go into full nervous system activation. And now I can see it. What I like to help people see is that it's it's the level of discomfort you're feeling inside of your own body. Instead of just sitting with it and being okay with it, you're trying to get your kids to solve it. Like, you're saying, I can't handle this discomfort. Can you guys stop fighting? Because if you'll stop Fighting all stop feeling so uncomfortable. Mhmm. Once you all of a sudden realize that, don't use it against yourself because it's just the truth. You can now say, oh, now I know what I need to do to solve this dynamic. I need to just be learn how to be okay with this discomfort, or I need to Realize, you know, conflict is normal, but maybe contempt is where, you know, I don't wanna take it or you start to unravel it so you can do something about it. But, You know, when we're minimizing our kids' emotions, like, they're validly upset perhaps because of something that went down with a sibling, and we're like, stop it. Stop being so upset. Why are you so upset minimizing their emotions instead of realizing to them having their brother destroy their Lego tower that they've been building for Hour is life altering devastation. It's just so terrible. And don't minimize their reality, their truth. Yeah. Don't minimize your kids' emotions, which, you know, correlates. Don't minimize your own either. Just be aware of all of it. Yeah. That's that's so good. And I think another way that it happens, Minimizing is like denying. Like, you're not hurt. That was fine. You're not sad. Wipe your face. I mean, I still remember I was full. My body was sending me full signals, and one of my parents would say finish what's on your plate. And, like, having the the reality of, like, my full tummy, like, nope. You don't know. I know. And that's another way that that we teach young kids that they're not the authority on their experience. Someone outside of them is the authority. And that they have to listen to that outside person. Like, I don't care if you don't like him. He's your uncle. You go over there and you give him a hug and a kiss. Right? Or you're not sad. You're fine. Nothing is happen there's not a problem right now. Pick yourself up. Dust yourself You know, get back to whatever it is that I want you to be doing. And so that's a really subtle, but I think huge way that We minimize and then disconnect them from their own experience of understanding and Being connected to their bodies. Mhmm. Which has big repercussions. Huge. There's a lot of fallout. Because it If you're taught that someone outside of you knows better than you, then you always better be finding somebody who knows better than you. And they tell you what's right. They tell you if you're doing it correctly, and that's a hard way to do it. Yeah. Uh, we could probably speak the whole time just about that. Yeah. There's another one, though. I think this is really interesting because I can see the correlation. So one of them I wrote down was saying no automatically without considering their requests. And Okay. And I think as an adult, sometimes we'll say no automatically to our own request because we were deferring to someone else. We're like, it's fine. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where I wanna go to eat dinner. It doesn't matter, you know, whatever the case may be. Right. So maybe that can translate into, like then I also do that to my children, or you can go to the you know, we could go to the place where you learned that because as a child, your requests were never heard or seen or seen as of anything of worth or important. Like, they're always trumped by somebody else's, so, you know, take a back seat. So it's not that we need to always say yes to our kids because sometimes their ideas are not great because they're immature. But that's not the point. It's when we just automatically are like, no. I know better than you. I know better than you. Instead of letting them speak, they say they wanna go to bed later and like, hearing it out and then helping them feel That you really are on their side and you really are taking into consideration what they're saying instead of just, no. I've said this ten times. We don't do this. Yeah. I just wanna point out a lot of these things happen between people that you love in loving connected relationships. And so You're learning what love feels like. Right? You're learning what connection feels like. You're learning what to expect When you share parts of yourself or obviously, it goes without saying that my parents did the best job they could. And because there were six kids born in ten years, we were raised in, like, this pack. Right? And I would just remember, you can't ask for anything special. You can't have an exception made for you. Like, this machinery that just kinda works every day to take care of This group of, you know, kids who have a lot of needs just can't slow down for you. And so that's another way of Understanding this is that it happens in oftentimes very loving, very connected relationships like I experienced, but this Not listening. Not hearing people as individuals whose needs are individuals, whose fears are individual, whose Ideas or individual. Yeah. That's what came up for me as I was listening to you say that. Yeah. And the thing I wanna communicate, it's that It doesn't mean that you get to cater to every or get to solve or grant every wish your kids have. Or if you're an adult, every wish your Spouse has or your friend has. It doesn't mean you say everything. You know, you you do that, but it it means just acknowledging that their opinion matters And that you see and hear them as a as a human worthy of an opinion. And so that's what we could do for our kids even if I can't. You know, there's been times where we've been on, Like a road trip or hour in and, you know, somebody forgot something they wanna turn around. Because in their mind, as a kid, it's like, well, it's worth it. We have to turn around, you know, And it's not reasonable, but it's about not discounting. It's not about discounting that even though they have that request. You know? Like, I see that, and I hear that. It's about how you feel in your body. Like, I'm not gonna say you're a bother to me. I'm not gonna say that this is really inconvenient for me. I'm gonna hear you and say, I get you. This is a really big deal that we left your blanket. It's gonna make this trip hard. I get it. And is there anything I can do to help with that? Because we don't have time to turn around. And I know that's such I know that's diss I know that's not the answer that you wanted to hear. And it does take more it just takes a different mindset. What else is on your list of what creates people pleasers? There's one other big thing that there's, like, the things that create it and then the things that, like, will help us prevent it. And I'll just say this one last thing, and then maybe we'll wrap it up, and then maybe we'll have to get back on and talk about the the rest of it. But the thing I love is the idea that and it's kind of been touched on other things, but this idea that giving up Our own needs, resenting it, and then taking it out on our kids. This, like, fine. I'll stay up or fine. I'll go I'll do your dishes or fine. I'll let you Stay sleep in bed with me, but then the whole time resenting them and being frustrated about it, and they feel that. And I I like to use the word Full accommodation. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's good. If you're doing this to your children, it's counteracting. Like, It would be better to just be clean and say, I can't do that thing instead of resentfully accommodating. Because now instead, you have this Whole experience. Maybe it's an hour, half an hour, five minutes, where they feel this judgmental resentful energy towards them. It's just not healthy. And then what you're doing too is teaching them down the road as an adult to resentfully accommodate all the people in their life. I'll do that, but I hate that I have to do this or you're so lazy. Oh, we don't wanna teach them that, but we have to be the models of it. And so we don't wanna do it to our kids. Well, we're just waiting for it to be over. Right? We're just, like, Ticking down the moment, if we've resentfully accommodated, we just can't wait for it to be over. So I would love to continue this conversation because I have the list of How people pleasing shows up in your parenting, and I really want to get your feedback on how does a parent who can't let their kid fail. Right? How do we get out of that? So Can we navigate that? Yeah. Can we talk again? Side of it. Yes. Let's talk again. The other side of it. Yeah. Because I not only wanna give, like concrete examples, but I wanna give parents some strategies for how to begin to unravel this, and I think you're one of the best people to do that. Oh, well, thank you. Yeah. That would be fun. I I would definitely like to finish it up with that because we kind of are leaving everyone hanging with a whole bunch of whole bunch of things they might feel that they've done, and I don't want them to be left saying, well, that's great. I'm doing all those things. Now what? You know, let's give them the now what for sure. And then what I would ask, which I think you've done so beautifully is If you have minimized your kid's feelings, if you have, you know, participated in the disconnection, that's because it was done to you. Yeah. And so to have some compassion for how we got where we are and to identify from Your own childhood experience is the way that this happened because most often, what we do is we pass along and we do to others what was done to us. And the good news is we can Change at any time, and we can repair relationships even with adult children, and Yeah. We can get something different. We totally can. Yeah. I just ditto. Ditto. Ditto. I mean, there's always a reason our nervous system has put one of these stories into place. It's to protect us. So Be so kind to yourself. And I really struggled with this. I don't know how this was for you at the beginning. I beat the crap out of myself, and all that did was keep me stuck longer. So if you're afraid to be kind to yourself, just realize it actually gets you out quicker. So just For sure. Read that in. Kindness moves you forward. Beating yourself up is gonna keep you in your old patterns. So, yes, please be kind. Alright. Your body was trying to protect you. That's all that happened. Nothing more. Yeah. Be kind and then come back and listen for part two next week.