Episode 70 - "I am so F*cking Proud of Myself" - Conversations with Women Who Have Stopped People Pleasing

I am so grateful to have had the opportunity to sit down with Allyssya Gossett, Abby Wolfson, and Jayne Newman to dig into what it's like to be a woman programmed to people please—and what it's like to be a woman who stops. 

Allyssya is an educator and life coach who helps women step outside their comfort zone and into confidence so they can live the life they imagine. Abby is a child sleep coach, a parent coach to single moms by choice, a former pediatric nurse practitioner, and a mom of three. And Jayne is a self-described recovering people pleaser with a familiar story: good times, bad times—life—but one that keeps getting better as she goes. 

All three of these remarkable women have gone through the Stop People Pleasing program and done the incredibly hard work of learning to live honestly and authentically despite other people’s discomfort. In the episode, each of them shares what the process has been like, how their world has shifted, and what happened that they didn't expect—like how eliminating people pleasing hasn't made them selfish but instead made them value their wants and needs equally. Or how eliminating people pleasing hasn’t meant changing their personality but showing up as their real self. Finally, they share about how hard this work is and how the support of other women makes them feel brave enough to do it. I hope this episode will help you find clarity, solidarity, and courage wherever you are on the journey to stop people pleasing.

Find Allyssya here:
https://www.facebook.com/amplifyyourpanache

Find Abby here:
https://www.peacefulparentsleepcoaching.com
https://www.instagram.com/peacefulparentsleepcoach
https://www.facebook.com/AbbyWolfson 

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!
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Transcript

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You are listening to the X good girl podcast episode 70. One of my most favorite things is to talk with people who have been through Stop People Pleasing in the past to find out what changes, what opportunities, what different experiences they are having now because of their time in Stop People Pleasing, and I have three people Guests today who have taken the, the plunge and jumped in to the stop people pleasing group coaching program, uh, in the last three years, in the last two years, and then someone who's currently in the program now. So first of all, thank you so much for being here. We have Alyssa and Jane and Abby. And in that order, will you please introduce yourselves? Sure, my name is Alyssa and I just stumbled across Sarah and was so grateful and I originally wanted to do this because I was starting a coaching business and I thought that I needed help in that area and ultimately, it ended up supporting me in my personal life even more. So. Thank you for having me. I'm Jane and I've known Sarah for quite a long time and when she began coaching I felt like it was the perfect fit for her and she told me about this class and it was the perfect fit for me. I've taken it a couple of times because I just had so much to learn and so much to practice and it's really made a huge difference in my life so I'm really excited to be here. I'm Abby, and I originally came to Sarah actually for relationship coaching after having two children on my own as a single mom by choice, and then getting into a partnership. And then, um, sometime after that, uh, joined her in Stop People Pleasing and have used the, what I'm learning in my, in my current relation, a new relationship, um, and it's just been so incredibly helpful. Well, I'm first of all, I love each of you so much as, as people and as, uh, as women who are trying to make a difference in the way that people pleasing has dictated your choices and your opportunities. And so, um, Jane, I, I, my first question is for you, you did your first round of stop people pleasing in 2021, and then another round in 2022, what was it that made you want to do multiple rounds? I felt like I understood the concepts, but I really needed more practice and even still, I have to practice, although it's getting a lot more natural. My first instincts are now becoming as a result of what we've learned, but it took a long time to make them my first instincts instead of struggling to stop people pleasing. It's just so much more natural after more practice. And that's why I took the course more than once. And you know what, I should back up and ask this other, this question first, before you joined, and this is for everyone, where did you see people pleasing as a problem? Like what was it that made you want to join to begin with? I had no control over my own life. I made all my decisions based on what would make the people around me happy. And, I just felt like I didn't even have a sense of who I was because all I was was a puppet for everybody else to make sure that they were comfortable and happy and that all their needs were met and I disappeared. I needed to find myself and find my voice and find my place in the world. And this is really helped. For me, for the longest time, I didn't even realize what was happening in my life was people pleasing. I kind of subscribed to the, I guess, like, very common definition of people pleasing and that you overextend you say yes to everyone and all of those things. And I was not doing that. So I didn't realize so many of the things that I was dealing with were people pleasing. So I mentioned earlier, I initially. Reached out because. I was wanting to start this business and I thought, oh, I've got to get to the point where I can accept the no without taking it personally. And then in talking with you and going through the program, I realized. All of the other areas in my life where I was people pleasing and finally started to sort of feel normal because for so long I thought it was just my anxiety or just like something else that was broken in me and didn't realize that it was just people pleasing. Okay, that's so interesting and I definitely want to come back to that for a 2nd, but Abby, where did you see people pleasing popping up or problematic in your life? Yeah. So when I started coaching with you, I was trying to save a romantic relationship partnership where I was just walking on eggshells all the time. And it was just eating me, I was miserable. And so I think I'm really grateful that we did the work of coaching because I learned how much I could grow without, without the other person changing and ultimately then. Was one day ready to leave that relationship and then getting in a new partnership. Now I made a commitment to myself that I was going to be honest about what I need. And, um, it's not always, it's not always easy. I think even just the idea of like, this isn't what I want. This is what I need. I feel like men in heteronormative relationships, they say, I need this. And women say, I would like this as if it's, Like our, it's our preference, you know, like, I prefer, I don't know, decaf over regular. Um, and so I think recognizing, no, these aren't wants and preferences. These are my needs. And then learning to speak up for them as valid as it's the stop people pleasing. It's been instrumental with that. I remember Abby, um, when we were coaching, you could see how often you had in your first relationship, you had held your tongue, you had not said what you really wanted to say, or you had tried to say it in like the exact right, nice, kind way to try to get your partner at that time to respond. And the messages you were sending me at the beginning of your now relationship were like, From the gate out of the gate, I am saying what I need to say. I am not ever going to, you know, I'm not going to repeat the pattern of trying to say things in the nicest, kindest way. That's designed to not make him mad at all. I'm just going to say it has that been. What has that been like to be able to just say the things that you need to say in your romantic relationship? I mean, it's, it's honestly totally life changing. Um, what I realized with the past relationship was even when I said it perfectly, he didn't receive it in the well at all. Like he was going to have his reaction no matter what, as you know, as all people do. So, I mean, well, of course I want to be polite and like constructive most of the time. Um, There's no like either people are going to accept you or how they are, how you are or they're not. And so there's really no point in bending yourself into a pretzel. And like, if he does, if my partner didn't like who I was like better, you know, at the outset and that we don't go down this road instead of putting years into relationship, you know, just trying to massage every element to make it work. Yeah. So I just feel like now I'm like, this is who I am, you know, totally understand. I'm not what you're looking for, but if you are great. I love that so much, excuse me. I love that so much because I think as women, we are taught that it is our job. To bend and pretzel to be likable, to be acceptable, to make them like us, whether it's a romantic partnership or in a friendship and how freeing and also terrifying maybe at times to just say what's on your mind, but how ultimately freeing to just know that there isn't anything that I'm hiding or pretending. I'm not performing in any way for this person. This really is me. And if they're with me. They are with me, the real version of me. Does it feel, does it feel that way to you, Abby? Yeah, totally. I'll share a slightly embarrassing anecdote that I told you when we first met again, that I was going to pick up my partner early, like fairly early in a relationship, and I was pregnant and I had a really bad cold. And I was stuck in traffic and, um, if anyone knows about being pregnant and is that like you need a lot of bathroom stuffs and I was stuck in traffic and I couldn't stop and I was coughing violently. And so I was like, I have to tell the truth. I have to tell the truth. And so I messaged him and I was like, I just need you to know like I've slightly peed myself. Everything's fine. What? And in that moment, it was like the most humiliating thing that I could think of telling someone, but I was like, I am committed to telling the truth. And of course he was totally fine with it. And now it's like, we laugh about it. But in that moment, it was so scary and also so freeing. Oh, I, first of all, I love that story. I've lived that story as the mom of five who, you know, no longer has a bladder that wants to cooperate, even with sneezing, but to be able to divulge like this, either this physically embarrassing thing, or this emotionally embarrassing thing. I remember just trying. Getting up the courage to just express to my husband how deeply scared I was that he would leave me and how much I wanted to be more connected to him after the first kind of decades of our, the first decade for sure of our marriage was not at the level of intimacy and connection that either one of us wanted, but also like how, how terrifying it feels sometimes to tell the truth in relationships. Alyssa or Jane, have either of you had experiences telling the truth in a relationship that was helped by what you learned in Stop People Pleasing? Yeah, I absolutely have. I was in a pretty dysfunctional relationship when I first started this and um, I would, I just don't ever want to go back to that. I'm in a fairly new relationship right now and it's still taking a lot of practice because this is my first relationship since I feel more on my own feet with who I am and I find myself still struggling to be completely forthcoming. It's going to take practice. It's going to take work and I was actually thinking about this just yesterday. Why is it still hard? Is it because I'm afraid he'll reject me? I don't think that's it because I know I'm okay on my own. It's still just a matter of making the other person comfortable and it is really, really hard to know you're going to say or do anything that's uncomfortable for somebody else. But at least now I have the courage to try and to be aware of it. Yeah. Is it the fear of how you, is it the fear of seeing this person uncomfortable or is it the fear of how you will feel? If he's uncomfortable, I think it's a bit of both. Yeah, I'm uncomfortable when I make somebody else uncomfortable still to a degree. Mostly. I think it's in a romantic partnership in my other relationships. I have gotten really good at making other people uncomfortable and sitting with it just fine. I didn't show up for any of the Easter activities in my family. I. I just wasn't in the mood, so I just didn't do it. And I loved it. That's amazing. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see how you increase your capacity for watching someone else be uncomfortable because their reaction to something you have to say to them. Yeah. I'm taking this a lot slower than I've taken relationships in the past. I used to kind of dive in too fast. But I guess that's part of the pause. I've been pausing in my progression to make sure it's really what I want and that I'm doing it for me. I'm finally putting me first and I kind of freaking love it. I did too. That's awesome. Alyssa, what's happened in your relationships because of Stop People Pleasing? So I feel like my stories are very similar to Jane and Abby. I, I was previously married and looking back, I see all of the pieces. And all of the times where my people pleasing was very present in the relationship and how I wish I could go back and do things differently. And so, because of that, moving forward in new relationships, I, I decided to start dating at the same time that I was dating. Just starting the people pleasing class, which was really, really helpful because I would bring my dating stories to our group coaching and, um, the idea of someone choosing me because they know their real me was probably the biggest thing for me. And ultimately, I did end up meeting someone who is absolutely wonderful and much like Abby in my marriage. I was always trying to choose the perfect words so that they couldn't get twisted and come back. Like, if I just choose the right words, I will be heard. And I still find myself trying to do that at times in this relationship. But what is really wonderful is I realized I don't have to choose the right words. And, um, something just, About a month or two ago, I brought up to him and he was so sweet and so receptive and he said, I think you hold this stuff in and you make it out to be so much bigger than it is. And if you just say the thing, like, everything that you were thinking and feeling is totally normal, like, that was a completely reasonable thing for you to be feeling that way about and you caused yourself to suffer by holding it in for a week. Let me be clear, me holding something in for a week before I say something is. Pretty, um, big growth because I would hold it in for months, years, or maybe never even say it. So, um, that's kind of how that looks for me now. And it is, it is wonderful to be chosen for the real me. Yeah, that is such a beautiful, uh, such a beautiful feeling. And I think that people pleasing gets misunderstood and Alyssa, I think you nailed it, like both Most people think people pleasing is just not being able to say no and then always feeling overwhelmed because you've said yes to too many things. And while that is definitely part of it. I think at the heart of not people pleasing is being able to say what you want to say in whatever situation you are in, whether it's in a romantic relationship, whether it's no, thank you. Uh, I don't want to do that. Yes, it is. Part of it is saying no, but it's about being able to be real and honest and transparent with whatever your needs and wants and opinions are. In any situation, and I think it's so beautiful that each of you have found ways that you're able to do that. And you can see ways where you're still developing the capacity to do that as well. One of the things that, um, almost universally is true of women and Alyssa, you already hit on this and I'd like to come back to it is there is. A constant feeling of anxiety or resentment or both kind of a, a soup where there's always this low hum of either anxiousness or this weight of resentment that kind of threatens to boil over at any time. So when you were talking about that anxiety, Alyssa, can you. Tell me a little bit more about like where you saw it. And what did you think it meant before? And what did you come to realize about it in Stop People Pleasing? I contend to have anxiety around just about anything. I mean, just Showing up today to do this podcast. There's some anxiety, you know, I don't want to let you down. I want to represent your program. Well, all of those things. But before I would have thought that that's just my personality and it's just my anxiousness. Whereas now I recognize it's that I don't want to let you down. I want to, well, and that that is more about people pleasing than it is my anxiety. And it's so interesting because it's something that we all, we address it inside stop people pleasing. Like, are you trying to please me? Are you trying to, you know, say the exact right thing in the exact right words. And I, I really appreciate you saying that. And as the coach, it's something that. I do have to always have my finger on is that what good is a course about stop people pleasing when everyone's trying to say the right answer. And so. 1 of the efforts that we make inside of set people pleasing is a to name it and to just know that it's a normal part of what's going to happen. And so, Alyssa, do you remember any moments where either that was addressed directly with you? Or what have you. What sense have you been able to make of that anxiety after the course? Um, I recognize now that the anxiety comes truly from the people pleasing and because of that Now I feel like I don't unconsciously people please nearly as much that I am. I'm not saying that I don't still do it because I absolutely do, but I'm very conscious that I'm doing it and feeling like it is a choice. Feel so much better than just doing it unconsciously. Um, so yes, the anxiety is still there. That discomfort is still there. But when I'm choosing which discomfort or anxiety, if you will, that I want, that just feels different. How, how does it feel different? Um, it feels empowering to choose it versus it just happening or feel like it's happening to me. When I am making the choice. I feel better about that because I feel empowered. That's it. That's it. It's about understanding your reasons for making the choice and then actually feeling like you have a choice. Because I do think that a lot of the, the ways that people, one of the ways that people pleasing traps you is into not giving you a choice, thinking you don't have a choice. I have no choice, but to please or perform or pretend for this person. Jane, what did you want to say about that? I totally agree with that. Deciding which decision I want to make takes away the resentment for when I was just making the decisions. Habitually, but when I decide which discomfort I want to embrace, the resentment is gone. And that feels so much more peace in my life. Yes. I, my resentment, well, first my anxiety, I feel like I constantly have the question, is this going to be okay? Is this going to be okay? Is this going to be okay? Like, is it okay if I do this? Is it okay if I say this? Is it okay that I don't want to do this? And my resentment, and I'd love to hear from, from any of you, if you feel like you had a lot of resentment was from the fact that I, the unspoken sentence in my brain was listen, I am busting my ass every day to please all of you. Why aren't you trying to please me? Why are, why, why am I not getting some of this behavior and it, there was a funny story in, it came to, like, it showed up a lot for me, but I remember going to get, um, some vaccines one day for my two boys who were visiting, um, from out of state, they'd come home from college and I had made an appointment for a separate day. And I asked the pharmacist who was doing the vaccinations, if she could just get me in with the boys, because I was already there. And she said, no, if I do that, it's going to really throw off my schedule. And I don't want that to happen. I was so mad the second. Why won't you please me? Why won't you do this for me? And it just was such a revelation that when you spend all of your time and not all, when you spend a significant amount of your time trying to please and accommodate other people and other people aren't doing that for you, that's a big source of resentment for people. And it was a big source of resentment for me. And that was just a few years ago and I caught it and I was able to, you know, calm myself down, but I think I lived with that. For a lot of years. Anyone else? You know, when I heard that story just now, I thought good for that pharmacist for not throwing off her day for keeping things under control for her schedule. Good for her. Yes. Yeah. Why, why did she need to disrupt her very orderly, clean schedule just because I wanted what I wanted. Abby, I think I saw your, your hand there. I was just thinking about your story and I hope it's okay to share about the signup sheets for holiday dinners. Yes. Um, and how much I love that, that everyone must have been just like, what's happening? And that you were just like, yeah, I don't want to be doing all the work. Yeah. Just the backstory on that. Um, not thanks this last Thanksgiving, but the Thanksgiving before I realized that I spent more time in the kitchen than anyone else. And a lot of it was doing jobs that anybody could. Help with, I just hadn't let people know that there was a change in the plan that I would no longer be the one in the kitchen afterward, doing a lot of the cleanup. And to be fair, I did have a lot of help, but I wanted the kids, the bigger kids to help more. And I created a signup sheet for jobs. And a couple of the reactions were interesting, you know, I had a couple of family members say, you know, I, I, maybe you've taken this not people pleasing thing too far, because now you're wanting like everyone to help. And I was like, yeah. I am, I am wanting everyone to help and it, it was, it was a funny, it was a really funny incident. I'm, I'm happy. You remember that Abby? I wanted to share a quote that I heard just the other day and I don't know to whom it belongs and so I don't want to take credit for it, but it belongs to someone. And the quote was unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. And man, did that hit me to the core because I had so much resentment all the time for Various things that I felt like other people should be doing and I was raised kind of with this belief of, um, common courtesy and, you know, that the pharmacist pharmacist story that you just shared that the common courtesy thing would have been for her to do whatever it was that you were wanting her to do and that by her not doing it, that that was rude. And so that's the core belief that I had that I was raised with and goodness did that lead to. All kinds of resentments in my life, just kind of that concept of I should be courteous to the other person. And then if they are not courteous to me, yeah, and it's so interesting. First of all, Abby found the, the source on that Neil Strauss. Thanks, Abby. And second of all. Are men raised with the same idea of common courtesy? We're all shaking our heads. And in podcast land, I just need to say that out loud so that you understand what's happening because men are given very different rules about what kind of behavior is acceptable to them. It's they're strong leaders. They make tough decisions. They, uh, you know, call the heart. Hard shots and, and it is interesting just the difference in programming about common courtesy means you accommodate, you, you know, pretzel, you change your plans so that the needs and wants of other people fits. That word accommodate. Brings up a lot of thoughts for me, because I do think that when women accommodate more and especially women like us who are really prone to people pleasing. And one of the things that I realized is I don't have to stop accommodating. I'm just going to start accommodating me instead. I'm going to start caring about me first job for everybody else when I do that. And in theory, I think I always knew that, but I didn't know how. So when I hear accommodate, I think of myself now. I love that. I'm going to accommodate me. I love that. That is actually one of the things that is probably most misunderstood at the outset by women who want to stop people pleasing. We're so used to everyone else's. Needs and wants and desires and wishes being over above ours and we're down below. So, when I talk about not people pleasing, what I'm talking about is just becoming equal that our needs and desires and wants are equal. I am, they matter just as much and when you've lived your whole life with everyone else's. Needs and wants, et cetera, being more important. It can feel selfish in the beginning. It can feel really uncomfortable. Did any of you struggle with putting your needs and wants on the same equal playing field as everyone else's? Yeah, absolutely. Jane, say more about that. And then Abby. I just felt like. Very selfish. It was really hard for me to make this switch. And honestly, I think it was a little easier for me because my kids were already moved out. If I had to still have daily interactions with them, it would be much harder to put myself first, but because I have more space around me to just kind of settle and understand what my wants are, because that has been one of the hardest steps in this course for me is knowing what I want, it's still probably one of the hardest steps for me. Um, but now that I have more space, more natural pause. It has become easier for me, but, um, I did feel really selfish. And I think there were people probably still in my life that think I'm kind of selfish now because they've only known the one version of me and this one looks a lot different. And that's okay with me. Yeah. For it to be okay for it to not worry you is a huge victory. And you were able to make some really great changes in your relationship with your adult children that continue to, I think, contribute to the better relationship that you have with them today. Is that fair to say? Absolutely. I think that they feel a bigger sense that I trust them because I'm not trying to constantly absolve them of their struggles and their problems. And so I think they feel more enabled and more powered enabled might be the right the wrong way to say that they feel more, um, capable of fixing their own problems because. They've had the experience to do it. This guy that I'm seeing Enabling is disabling. And I think that's really true. And I didn't realize it for a long time. I thought I was helping them, but I think it was actually hurting. That's a great point. Abby, what did you want to say about that? I was thinking about, you know, kind of a joke among women in our culture is like about the man flu, you know, that like, Typically, when a man stereotypically, when a man gets a cold or sick in some way, it's like the whole world has to grind to a halt as far as he's concerned. And then, you know, women with children, you know, it's so rare that we feel like it's okay. Like we have permission from some, someone to actually, um, to take care of ourselves. And, um, I mean, I feel really grateful in my current relationship. But, um, when I was, I had a baby a little less than a year ago, and this last pregnancy was just really, I felt nauseous every day and, um, my partner was great about it, but I actually had to disappoint my kids a lot, just being like, I can't read stories tonight. I can't do this with you. I have to lay down. Like, maybe you can come and talk to me for a few minutes, but like, I'm so sorry. I love you. And it's not fair that like this, this happened. You know, future sibling is taking me away from you, but it is, it's the reality of the situation. Yeah. Learning how to disappoint someone else when it is best for you is probably one of the biggest skills that, that there's a lot of discomfort around that. Yeah. Alyssa, what, what did you want to add? I just wanted to add a couple things that happened for me very similarly to what Jane was saying. One, figuring out what I actually wanted was a real challenge because I realized pretty much my whole life, I didn't make any decisions without seeking consult from someone, whether it was my parents or, um, My ex husband or friends, and so that has been a shift for me is not seeking other people's input before making some decisions. Um, and the other thing is, and we talked about this when I was in the class is that it is so much easier. To start using these skills with new people who don't know you and work up, like, building that muscle before you start training them on the people who have known you for years or decades. And I have definitely felt that, like, I do it way more in my current relationship than I do with my mom. Right? Like, my mom, it's just little baby steps. Yeah, I think that's a great way to put that. You're exactly right. And that's one of the reasons why we start always in lower risk. Relationships and scenarios 1st, even though what is lower risk really tends to be different for people. I remember asking this question in the group that you're in Abby. Now, would you rather tell your partner? Your romantic partner that you don't like a gift that they got you, or would you rather tell the waiter that you don't like the food and you'd like to order something else? And I thought the waiter would 1 by far, but no, right? Abby. No, I mean, I remember like, I think just before you had asked this question, I'd been in a restaurant and we got something and the food was expensive and it was not good. And I was, um, 1 of the dishes and I was like, I asked my partner to send it back. And I, like, literally couldn't even look at the waiter when he, when he did it. Yeah. And so. Different situations are, are uncomfortable for different people for different reasons. And what I love is that you just get to start with whatever feels the lowest risk to you and work up from there. What opportunities do you feel like you now have because you have done the work to change your people pleasing? This will sound very broad in general. But I feel like I have the opportunity to feel fulfilled. You would think that people pleasing, that like always making sure that everybody else's comfort is met would have a level of fulfillment, but it's very hollow. And so to find something to spend my time and energy on that is really fulfilling to myself is a, an amazing experience. That's so beautiful. I think one of the, the things that is common in a lot of people pleasers is we have pages and pages of plans for our life or we have ideas. And no time to do them because we're doing for other people with the bulk of our time. And so to find fulfillment in small things, in big things, in just choosing what to do with your time. I think that's like revolutionary. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, you know, I've heard quotes like you are the CEO of your life or you're in control of your destiny or, you know, quotes like that. And for the longest time, I don't know that I really believed it. And now I actually do. Like, I actually feel like I am in control of my life and where it goes next. Yes. love that. So good. Abby. Um, I see that in a opportunity, I think in a couple of different areas, like one is continuing to work on my, my romantic partnership and being even more truthful and also like getting past, I think you called it like the Goldilocks phenomenon or something like go to the other extreme of like, okay, I know I can say my truth now. Like maybe I could phrase it. Like package it a little bit more constructively. Um, and then I think other places, um, in thinking about my friendships, weeding my friendship garden a little bit, um, letting, um, one relationship go another friendship, finding the courage to say like, Hey, this pattern, like, I love you and this pattern of frequent cancellations really doesn't work for me, are you willing? To work on that, it was terrifying for me, but as a result, like we have a much better friendship now. And then as a result of letting that first, you know, some not healthy relationship go, I, I now have space to, to make a new friend who I just had over and who I'm like, really delighted about. But if I hadn't let go of the other person who wasn't bringing joy, I wouldn't have had space for her. So that feels really good. That's so beautiful. That's. I, I'm doing a lot of work on, on feeling safe and friendships right now as well. And I think as an adult, there's, there's a lot of, a lot of wanting, you know, close friendships outside of my romantic relationship and learning to really show up as who I am there. So I love that. Abby, Jane, I saw your hand. Yeah. I just, I haven't been in the course for quite a while now, and doing this right now is reminding me of something that I really loved about actively being in the course, and that's the sense of encouragement and a community that I feel with the other women in the group. And I feel that all right now with you guys. And, um, I really, really enjoyed that about the course. There's, there's just a level of. Not sure what the right word is, like, I don't know. I just really love the community. And I feel braver when I have the support of all these other women who are also learning how to be brave and make changes in their life. And I think it's a really great aspect of the group. I enjoy one on one coaching with you as well. But having a whole group like this, I It's really helped me learn to appreciate the power of women and what we can add to each other's lives. I just want to piggyback on that. The other thing that was also really helpful for me and being in a group was realizing that there are so many people just like me, and I'm not this like weird, broken one out there kind of on my, um, so many of our stories. I mean, just listening to the three of us talk today, so many parallel stories. And even if the story itself wasn't exactly the same at when someone else was getting coached, there was always a piece of it that applied to my life and my circumstances and feeling like you are not alone, I think helps in so many ways. And then you get that encouragement on top of that and it's just really quite beautiful. Yes. It's one of my very most favorite things. It's when I say that the stop people pleasing group feels like Christmas morning to me. It's really true because everybody we start with celebrating. And it's like these little gifts that we all open up together. So everyone who has something that they want to celebrate, that's how we start. And I think the genius of that, and to be sure I, uh, I think I'm a very smart coach, but I'm pretty sure that I got that idea from another coach of celebrating first, because women's brains are taught to look for what's wrong. And, and all of our brains, not just women's, but. That fun way that we celebrate the little things that are happening, and then the coaching inside the group comes actually in those ways, Alyssa, that you mentioned, it's from listening to the stories of other women and taking the similarities, hearing how they're coached and applying that to you. And then the one on one or the direct coaching that you get is the other way. But there's something so beautiful. I think about being a part of a group where we are all working on the same thing together, because the common thing that I hear from a lot of women who are in their. Even forties or thirties is I know I'm people pleasing and I'm so either embarrassed or ashamed. Like, why can't I just stop? I'm a grown ass woman for heaven's sake. Why can't I just stop this and to get in a group where everybody is, is struggling with so many of the same things is one of the beautiful parts about it for sure. Does anybody have anything they want to add to that? I just want to say that that idea of celebrating I have carried that with me. Um, that's 1 of maybe the bigger pieces is when something happens and I respond in a different way than I used to. I'm very aware of it. And I like. Celebrate myself, even if it's just internal. I'm like, look, like in the past, you would have responded this way, but now you were doing it this way. And whether it's a people pleasing thing or something else, just that idea of celebrating the growth and seeing how far I've come is really nice instead of the shaming and blaming that I did for so many decades. Yeah. Love it. To add on that. I feel like the little celebrations has really helped build my self esteem and my self love too, because I, it's taking that moment to recognize the work that I've done and feel happy about it has really, it's like a self feeding cycle because the more I celebrate myself, the more I succeed. And then the more I can celebrate myself and the more I succeed and I just feel like it feeds on itself and it's really a great tool. I love that. So as we kind of prepare to end our conversation, I just have two questions. First of all, and you can choose to answer either one or both. Has there been anything surprising to you about either what you've learned about yourself or an opportunity that's come up for you that you didn't think you would have before? Has there been anything surprising? Let's just start with that one. Abby. Yeah, I've been surprised at just how it continues to be a lot of work for me, like I mentioned the commitment to this relationship. And I mean, now that I'm going to tell the truth and I find myself constantly. Oh, you didn't say that thing that you were thinking, you know, it that habit is so strong of. Um, keeping things uncomfortable to myself and really that I really, I think that the support in the group is so helpful because it is not a habit that has been easy to change for me. I love that. You say that one of the things that I really want to do when I speak in this podcast episode is part of it is to give people an accurate. Picture of what the journey to stop people pleasing really looks like that. It does take a lot of practice that it does take. Over and over and over again, trying the same thing, like telling the truth and sitting with the discomfort of doing that. And that it's not always easy and it doesn't always work the 1st, or 7th time. Right? There's more. And so I'm really glad that you said that it is still something that you're working on. Yeah, it is a daily hourly thing for sure. Um, the other thing for me that I noticed is when I was in the people pleasing class, if I'm just really honest, like, there were days when I felt awful and just flat didn't show up. Right. And there were weeks that I didn't do any of the activities that we discussed, and I was kind of hard on myself. I'm like, you spent this money and you made this commitment and you didn't do and just to anyone out there. He was thinking about doing this. I got what I needed in the moment that I needed it and it has still served me very well. So if you feel like I can't, I can't commit to that much, you will still get lots and lots and lots of wonderful things out of it and you will get what you need in that moment in that season of your life. I completely agree with that. I feel like I've learned to have a lot more grace with myself. I think along with people pleasing, there's a level of perfectionism that's intertwined in it and I've learned to allow myself the time it takes. It will take as long as it takes. I'm not trying to reach perfection immediately anymore, and I've been working on this for years now, and it really has made a long term difference in the very beginning. I thought, oh, yeah, this sounds nice. But, you know, this is how things are. Can they really be different? And. I will testify they can be, and it is hard, and it does take a lot of practice, but we just have to give ourselves that grace that it takes as long as it takes, and however fast we go is the exact right pace. I love that. Any last words as we wrap up here? I love this course. I talk about it all the time still. People are probably so sick of me talking about it, but I talk about it all the time. Love that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you said there was a 2nd question or was that? Oh, yes. Is there anything that you feel like is open to you now that was not open to you before starting to do this work? Internal happiness. That's a big 1. Yeah, life changing. I think we talked about in a recent class. Like, you can say some words and feel uncomfortable, or you could say some other words and feel uncomfortable. Um, but with the 2nd, 1, and you didn't say this, I'm going to add to it is that, like, this feeling of. Authenticity of, like, I'm, I'm still uncomfortable, but now it's like, I'm being who I, who I want to be. Yes, I second that, and I third it. Yeah, that second discomfort is getting less and less over time. And just to clarify what Abby was saying, when I boil people pleasing down to its simplest parts. Yes. When you are stuck in people pleasing, you are saying words and you're feeling uncomfortable. You're saying words like, no, that's fine with me. No, no, no. It's fine. I'm okay. Yeah. Or you're not, you're not sharing opinions and you're feeling uncomfortable and not people pleasing is just saying different words. No, I'm sorry. That's not going to work for me. I would like to do something different. I will no longer be accepting this behavior and you're still feeling uncomfortable. But I think what I love about what Abby said is that second type of discomfort is the path to authenticity, to being genuine, to being the real you and to knowing that that's who you are being accepted for. That's who you are being loved for. Not a pretend version of yourself. It's hollow being. loved for something that you aren't truly feeling. Yeah. And this, when I talk about this being like the revolution that women need and are waiting for, it's the revolution that each of you have brought about in your own life. Because while I stand behind a hundred percent, the program that I've put together, it really is your individual efforts and the way that you have shown up for yourselves that has produced. These beautiful things in your lives that you've talked about, because as good as the program is, no one can make you. Willingly feel the discomfort of saying different words, willingly try on different scenarios where you're not pretending anymore. And so I just have the utmost respect and love for you for. Being the type of women who would show up for themselves this way. Oh, did you remember Alyssa? So I was talking about how that discomfort lessons. And recently I have been saying to people about some decisions that I have made that I don't have any anxiety about it. And I said, and it is a little bit like, why, why don't I have anxiety? And I'm realizing that that is diminishing and I I have never known life without a constant underlying anxiety and it is just so wonderful. Even if it's just moments throughout the day where it's not there, it is such a wonderful feeling. I love that. Um, so Sarah, I found you through the life coach school and I remember years ago, listening to Brooke Castillo, the founder of Life Coach School, talking about, um, you know, sometimes people don't like you and it's like peaches. Like you could be the most perfect, fabulous peach, but if somebody doesn't like peaches, they're not going to like you. And that made so much sense to me intellectually. But emotionally I couldn't get there to like, but how do I feel okay about them? Not liking peaches. And I feel like, you know, in the past I would have tried to be an apple instead. And I feel like this place of like, okay, I'm uncomfortable that they don't like peaches. And like, I'm going to learn to live. I'm going to stay being a peach and I'm going to learn to work through the discomfort of that. I love what you just said. We were always trying to be whatever fruit that people wanted. I love that. Yeah, it is. The supreme pleasure and honor of my life to work with women like you. And here's where I get a little emotional because it is, I think, in the individual lives of people just like you, where this work makes such a difference in relationships, but also in the self confidence that you have to show up as you. And to know that it is good, that it is right, that you are valuable, that you are worthy, and that some people might not like peaches and that that's okay. And it has nothing to do with you. So I am just really grateful for the trust that each of you placed in me and in this, this program. And I just love seeing the results that it has. Brought about in your life. Is there anything about the program that you would change or that you would you would make different make it mandatory in schools. I feel like it's improved the relationship with myself more than anything else. And I'm very grateful for that. Well, thank you for being here for your time and for your willingness to share your experience with everyone. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you.