Episode 84 - Belonging to Myself with Serena Hicks

Get ready for a deep and inspiring conversation with Serena Hicks, a trailblazing business coach who’s shaking up how we view success and belonging. In this episode, Serena and I explore finding self-acceptance and navigating life when you feel pulled between different worlds.

Serena Hicks is a business coach driven by freedom—financial, personal, and spiritual. With a background that includes MTV News and an Emmy from The Tyra Banks Show, she blends corporate success with deep personal insight. Serena champions inclusivity and empowers others to thrive on their terms. Through her coaching philosophy, #LoveTrustMoney, she helps clients align business with values, transforming success into an act of love.

We dive into the power of self-acceptance and explore what it means to truly belong to ourselves, especially when our identities span multiple worlds. Serena brings her unique perspective as a biracial woman and successful entrepreneur to our conversation, sharing how she's dismantling old systems and creating new paths for herself and her clients.

If you’ve ever struggled with external pressures, or you’re looking to align your life with your true values, this episode is for you. Join us and discover how to break free from societal expectations, reclaim your inner freedom, and build a life that reflects your most authentic self. I can’t wait for you to listen.

I can’t wait for you to listen.

Find Serena here:
https://www.serenahicks.com/

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https://www.facebook.com/SerenaHicksAF/

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Transcript

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You are listening to the X Good Girl podcast, episode 84. This episode is a conversation with Serena Hicks about belonging. Each of us are biracial and what started out as us kind of talking about what it's like to try to belong in two different cultural groups kind of spread to a discussion about belonging in general and how we spend so much of our early life trying to belong in. outside of us, to groups, to, communities. And that's right. But that eventually we have to make the switch to belonging first to ourselves. And we talk about how we did that. Enjoy. Well, Serena, you've been on my list for a long time to have a conversation with, so Serena, tell everyone who you are. Hi, everyone. My name is Serena Hicks. I am a black biracial. So half black, as we were discussing, I'm a black Scottish, Danish and Italian, uh, woman. I'm here in my hometown of Dallas, Texas after time in New York city time in Austin. And I'm a business coach. I also, I think I've been known as a money coach and I love Coaching on money, but I'm returning the focus to business simply because businesses make money. That's a part of it. And I definitely have found some clients have like an allergy to the idea of like this obsession with the money. And I'm like, no money is a major component. And it's actually interesting. Like money belongs in business and on the planet. But I identify as a business coach slash fairly great money mindset mentor. And I, in particular, as you know, but for any new friends, I'm all about people. Let me say it this way, business, maybe not even as a revolution, but as a, a dissolution, like dissolving the old ways and creating much more fluid and much more nourishing ways. And that's my super hippie. And I know some people are like, what? That doesn't sound like strategy. I'm like, you're not ready yet. Come back later. It's fine. That's what I do. And that's what I love. And that's why I love what we're talking about. Well, now we have to have you back and have that conversation, because I think that it is interesting to me. I share your thought that we're going to fix our current system by acting differently in it completely. It's a dismantling project. It's not, let's just add a wing or paint this color over it. Well, we'll dismantle. And like, it's just evolution. Yeah. Yeah. So we got to talking and what immediately came up was the thing that I have wanted to talk and kind of work through with multiple people, because I think this by racialness that you already named. I share as well. My mother's Mexican. My dad is British Isles. And this idea of identities. And how, when we are young and just trying to belong in the world, we're just trying to have friends to play with at recess and someone who will invite us to a birthday party, right? Are it is normal and natural and very right that the majority of our attention is turned outward. Into the groups that we belong and trying to find connection, trying to find like, okay, I fit here. I am welcome. I am seen, I am taken care of biologically. That makes sense. Cause you know, an eight year old can't take care of herself. And also there is the experience of trying to belong and how we eventually become aware of how hard we are trying to belong and not always finding it. No, I think it's like a key component of our elevation of human consciousness right now. It's like, just as you said, we're wired, we're pack animals. Like, it is a natural, normal desire to belong. But then it's so easy in our search for belonging, which I think is like part of the game we're all playing here that we're like, giving ourself away and we're completely lost and When I belong to myself, I belong everywhere and authentically, and when I'm seeking belonging, then it's like, it's like the ego's game of constantly seeking, but never finding. And as we were saying, I grew up literally in Texas and my mother being from Rhode Island. I also grew up the first Christmas of my life and the first 25 Christmases of my life and first 25 Julys of my life I spent in Rhode Island. And it was like dual citizenship and then being. Half black and half white, like dual citizenship. Like I can remember as a five year old in Dallas, going to the store with my beautiful blonde blue eyed mother was a completely different experience than going to the store with my dad and, and just based on my skin looking mixed race. And it's like, people can piece it together whenever they did, but it was just completely different. And I think it's interesting because of course, children are so innocent. I can remember noticing long before. And certainly I didn't, yeah. Talk to people about it. But like, I remember noticing how they look at my parents, how like with my dad, they're like, is that his kid? Should he be holding that girl's hand? Like there was such a different often energy and it was like, yeah, just totally different. And to your point, wanting to belong, it's something that my mom did that I want to give her credit for because I love to complain about her. I'm super reliable. Poor woman, but some things she's done really well. And so I went to a private school here in Dallas until my parents divorced. I was a kid and she and I moved an hour and a half away, but I went to a private school and is very small, it was majority white, but like, there were kids of color, plural, I was not the only child of color in my kindergarten class. And, um, anyways, when my little brother was born, he's also black, biracial, and she wanted to put him in a private school. And I remember, she shopped around and was like, he has to go to public school. And I was like, why? And she was like. The only black people at all of the private schools, and this is East Texas, Tyler, Texas. I'm calling you out. Uh, granted, this is like the late 90s, but she was like, the only black people were custodians, not teachers, not other kids. She's like the only brown people. And then sure enough. So she put him in public school. And in case anybody's confused, because I was a kid and I was like, okay, and she was like, no, we all sort of learn our place. Yes. By looking around. And if he looks around the school, and the only person who looks like him as a custodian, he's going to think what. Messaging half the other kids are also picking up on, which is like, oh, you will be the custodian. And fun fact, nothing wrong with being the custodian. My mother's dad was a custodian at Brown University for decades. This is not a judgment. Oh, that's not a good job. But like, no 1 in a position of leadership or so called authority in any of the private school. She shopped. Looked like me or my little brother and for that reason, she was like public school. I'll just have to make sure to read them extra stories every night worked out, I think she was so brilliant for that were long before we were thinking the word. It's incredible I mean, this is decades ago now and that she could have had that awareness. Then I think we talk about, visibility matters now. Um, but that she could have known that kind of strikes me as remarkable. Yeah. Yeah. I'm approaching 50 and like when she and my dad put me in school, but she was like, Oh no, I found like Hill prep on purpose. Yeah. Took a minute. And shout out Lake Hill Prep in Dallas for the early 80s ahead of the game. So if you're listening and you're not biracial, that's not the point of this conversation. The point is we exist in different groups. And I think that is brilliantly by design because we need to be taken care of when we're young. And that gives us multiple big people who are hopefully invested in some kind of caretaking and, and teaching and shepherding along, but just think for just a second. So Serena, I want you to think too, and I'm gonna do this, like how many different groups have you belong to or sought belonging in? And just let that number, whatever your best guess, Just let it sink in for just a second, because the way in which our biological programming propels us to be long takes so much energy and effort as it should, right? Because the reward is so high and not having it, the price is so high. But I just think back to, you know, I was a little Mormon girl of, you know, Mexican descent in a town where I didn't have other. Mexicans who necessarily looked like me. I didn't think I was Mexican until almost getting through high school because the way that My family did it. We tried just very much to just be Mormon. That was the most important cultural component, right? Mexicanness and whatever was second to that. What about you? What are some of the groups that are coming to mind for you? So many, so many. One of the first that popped in my head when you were saying on it first, Thought it was billions. I've tried to belong to billions of groups, but I remember growing up in Texas. I wanted to be a cheerleader. Yes. I remember I tried out, I made alternate in eighth grade and to say I was devastated, devastated that I was alternate. I then was on a competitive dance team, drill team for all my Southern ladies and beyond proud. I'm thinking of my first, like, job out in the world. That was a sense of belonging MTV. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I haven't worked with these people in years and we still have a Facebook group And then it's funny because I'm thinking for all of the fellow good girls type A people pleasers, it's like, it's not just belonging. I think it's so natural. We want to belong. And then like, sort of insidiously tied up in there is and winning or shining or sparkly. Yes. Giving pieces away because I don't just want to be in this group. I want to be, you know, a leader and helpful and appreciated and connected and needed and integral and yes. Like I'm thinking of just high school drill team version of me and it's like, I just wanted to be everything everyone wants. I didn't want to disappoint anyone. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Because disappointment means. You don't belong. You get kicked out or you're in trouble or there's a side note because I lived in Houston for 8 years. I like when you said cheerleader, I was like, whoa, that's but you can only know that after you live in a place like Texas you know, I have a two year old daughter and I'm being asked when I'm getting her enrolled in gymnastics so that she can make the high school cheerleading team. Yeah. My mom screwed that up, put me in dance class in Dallas, by the way, it worked out really well for that whole high school dance team. But yeah. Yeah. I was in East Texas and totally, they were like, don't you know how to do a backhand spring? And I was in fourth grade and I was like, do you need to? And they were like, Oh my God. Absolutely. Yeah. So. It's endlessly fascinating to me, just this human experience of relationships, how we are constantly seeking safety and belonging. When do you remember being aware of all of your energy kind of going out, wanting to belong to things outside of you? And Also realizing there's like an inner belonging to I can't think of the first time, but I can think of a recent time in business. If that's okay. Yeah, please. Okay. So hi, I'm a coach, you know, that, but some of your listeners, just business coach, totally clear. So I sort of came up in my business started in 2019. So I sort of came up in this group and it was like, Okay. I felt like I was watching the head cheerleaders in high school. And then like, I got to audition as a freshman and I got in and then let's just say there were problems. And so then it felt like the group split up and I can't tell you the first time belonging, maybe it was this child of divorce, but I remember feeling like some people are going to the left. Some people are going to the right. Where do I fit? And When you talk about, like, giving yourself away at 1 point, I can remember in my business, which at the time I had, 29 clients who had paid 15 K to work with me. So it was like a 6 month program and it was like over 400 K and that was the biggest I had done so far. And I was like, conscious in a moment of. Fear and suffering, really suffering is the right word. It was like what I was thinking, but conscious that like this client is upset because she thinks like mindset is bad and just client or people listening. It was just what I was teaching. Like, she's just questioning my teachings. That's it. Yeah. And then. It felt dangerous, like it felt dangerous. It was like, well, if I say this, they're going to say that. And these people will crucify me. And if I say this, these people will crucify me. And if that, and to your point, I was suffering because all of the energy. Was on this person's going to crucify me for this. This person's going to crucify me for that instead of being in my. Experience. And in my, Hey, this is how I see it and the energy being rooted internally where it's like, yeah, people are gonna say whatever they say and like, that's fine. But if this is true for me, then this is why it's important for me. Instead, it was totally attempting to walk like the tightrope of, I still want to belong everywhere. And for me, that's what started waking me up very recently was like, Oh, right. This is an actual impossible situation. The only place I can belong is to myself. I feel that familiar feeling of like stuckness and pulled in two directions and I want to belong to both places. I want both groups to, like me. I want approval from both groups. I don't want to be blamed for anything that I might say and I can't. Business and money. So some of you listeners are like, she sounds stupid. Like, yeah, I cannot. There's a 0 percent chance. I can talk about business and money without someone somewhere. Named me as the new antichrist. Yeah, and it's like, oh, but then again, as women, we are socialized. And for any women of color, we're double socialized. Yes. Get it right fit in. Yes, get it. Right. Get a gold star. Be helpful. Be fun. The long as a form of safety. And it's like, wow, so much dismantling has to happen inside to have permission. And I think for me that. The kind of cruel irony is that, okay, so once I started to really pay attention, for example, I grew up, um, in the Mormon church and I lovingly with a lot of affection. I call that my time in Mormon land. I don't mean anything derogatory about that, but when I was in Mormon land. And I would feel like I don't like this, either what's being taught to me or how I feel like this affects other people, but I would just like squish it down or like, well, but they know better than me. Right. And so I came out of that over a period of time and I wish I could say that it was because I saw all of the, damage or the potential for damage. And that's not entirely true. My child came out as gay. And once I could see how this was going to affect my, it's like my, how it was affecting me didn't really matter enough or I wasn't attuned enough to it. I don't really know. And I'm not blaming myself for that. But once I could see the effect it was going to have on my child, I was like, okay, now this is different. And I began to feel into like what it is that I want. And that I think is the cruel irony is that you spend so much time belonging outside. That when you need that inner belonging, a lot of times it's not there yet, because you haven't spent the time to develop it yet because you didn't know you were supposed to, or you didn't know, we were taught to spend it on others, socialize to spend it on others. So it's like we are. bankrupt internally because we've been spending it everywhere else. Yeah. And if you're a woman of color, you're spending it places. If you're an immigrant, you're spending it places. If you're disabled, you're spending it places. I mean, all of these identities that don't fit and I guess I want to back up and just say, even, you know, white heterosexual individuals experience this need for safety and belonging. It's possible that they're just not spending the same number of belonging plates that other people who have more identities, but the energy is being spent nonetheless. And when you finally realize, like, oh, all of it has gone out, I've tried so hard to belong here and here and here and here. And none of that is sufficient. And you turn inside. I think it was very disorienting for me to actually think like, I actually don't know who I am. I don't know, separate apart from being Mormon, from being a mother, from being a wife, from being the provider of these things for this group. Who am I? It's so valuable what you just said. And I've invested a significant amount of time, money and effort working with Byron Katie lately. She does all the work and she calls it and it's for anyone listening who's like, that sounds like Buddhism. Yes. She's all of the work is to get to the don't know mind. And it's so fun because the ego, of course. Holds identity and wants, for reasons we love, we're not mad at, but like, wants an identity. I belong in this group. I am Texan. I am female. Here is my identity. And to be in don't know mind and to be like, I don't even know who I am truly from a loving, It's so fun. Cause I'm like, and there is the door of possibility. Everything is possible. Your energy is open. Like you're embodied, you're grounded, anything can happen. And that just like lights me up. So thanks for that. That's it's so interesting. Cause you say, don't know mind. And part of me is like, Oh, that sounds terrible. Like, no, I want to know. I want to have, of course. And so what's so great about don't know mind, that's where all possibility lives. That's where everything lives. Because if I know what my lot in life is as a woman, life is like, listen, you know, I belong to this, this religious organization, pick anyone. And I know what that means. Then there's two issues. Number one, we're not actually necessarily open. And we're dancing with the divine. We're like, this is what this means. And then two, if things don't go as planned, that is when we are bitter, angry, resentful, devastated, fighting with reality. Whereas don't know. So like we're all living, don't know mind. I mean, we all woke up today and if we think we know what's happening today, we don't like we have a plan. May all of our plans be blessed, but like, I don't know shit. I might get a phone call. You know, in four hours, it turns my world upside down. Like, we just don't know, but like our brain, create safety by thinking it knows. And for me, the first, like, wait a minute, this is delicious experience. Recently that I had was the first time I went to a Byron Katie. It was a 10 day school. She doesn't do it anymore. She's 81 years old, but, uh, it was March of 23. And was really just starting to chew on this concept, but it finally clicked. It clicked because we were staying in a hotel, a lame hotel. I want your listeners to be clear. It's like the LAX Sonesta. So like, do not envision luxury. Do not. It was sufficient and we're there for 10 days and all meals are there. Like we live there. So it's almost like camp as adults. So it's 300 adults at the LAX Sonesta. And I went ahead and paid for the upgrade for a private room. Well done me. And. I started to realize, like, oh, my God, this is the first time in and, like, got rid of my laptop, my phone. It's all by choice, but, like, just was immersed and realized every time I would go downstairs for workshop or a meal. I literally didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah, just like every, every 18 month old on the planet. doesn't know when the next meal is. Yeah. Doesn't know, like, it's so adult developed identity ego. I need to know where the next meal is. I need to know what my next vacation is. I need to know when I'm going to talk to my friend again. And it's like, actually, let's all look for our favorite babies and animals. Yeah. They just model don't know mind, like they need something to let us know and otherwise there's just this openness to like, let's just see what happens. If I like it. Great. If I don't like it, I might leave early. Like, there's just an openness. And to me, that's like the ideal. I don't want, you don't want to call it a goal, but like goal and the other thing, like, identity wise. So we were invited at that event to invited to, I didn't wear any makeup. Or perfume. And it was so interesting to just notice how my ego slash identity, like, well, who am I without mascara? Well, who am I without lip gloss? Well, who am I if I can't wear my perfume? And it was just in being stripped of so many things that I just take for granted and don't mind saying I'm wearing nail polish and makeup right now. But it feels different now. It's, uh, Oh, we're back to belonging now. So much of my. Makeup, nail colors, clothing is much more, again, an expression of how I'm feeling where at some point it became rote and it was a way of belonging. This is what I wear to signal that I believe in the ladies who wear perfume club that I believe in the upscale but not uptight outfits, wink wink club, like whatever it is. And it was to be stripped of it all by choice. I can't say that loud enough. Sometimes people. Yeah. Sounds like a horrible cult. I'm like, sounds like something I paid for. Yeah. I showed up on purpose, but like to have that experience was so valuable and I'm so grateful. Hence I'm evangelical about it. But, yeah, the ego doesn't, doesn't like not knowing. And by the, I mean, mine included, I always want to know, how's this going to pay off? How much fun is it going to be? How's it good for me? Yeah. I appreciate so much that the description you gave there, because in a different way, I do know that I am valuable and worthy. And no matter what, I will figure it out. That is like my core. Belief and identity that I want to remember about myself every single day. So it's this balance of the don't know mind is about how this path that I have set myself on that I think is the best path for success, growth, money, all that, all of that, all of that. It's understandable and also that's what we just don't know. And so there are things that we do know. So how do you kind of put the, what we do want to know? Yeah. And how we do want to identify into words. Um, for me, it's actually, I do the work. It's literally called the work with Byron Katie. I do that pretty much every day because to me, it is a undressing and undoing. It's like removing my makeup and it's like a return. It is a tool that I use. There's lots of tools on the planet to come home to what really matters, which exactly what you said. Like, I think the only thing that matters is love. Love is immovable. Everything else, everything else we can debate about, we can argue what we're doing as humans don't care. But like, to me, love is the. Only thing that actually matters everything else supports that. And by that, I mean, my body, my health, because I'm in a body, I get to be hugged and hug people. So like everything supports love. I get to hold doggies. I have a Starbucks near me that I'm obsessed with because all the doggies hang out there. Like everything that I do in business and money in love relationships, ultimately the core of it is love and connection. So I like doing that work and the thing that I want to say for anyone who looks up, you can literally go to thework. com. That's Byron Katie's website. It's totally free at the end. Like, everything you need is free. You can find it on the website. For me, it's a way for me to recognize and validate. I have an ego or the thinking mind, and she has a plan for us because she loves me so much. She doesn't want me to be hurt or disappointed or feel unwanted as I experienced as most of us had experienced as a child. So this very sweet part of me is trying to protect me from painful experiences. And she is not my soul. She is a part of me and I like thinking of the ego as a part of me. I'm not here to be like, I'm never going to have an ego or people would think I'm like, no, no, she's a part of me. Like, I have 2 hands right now. They are part of me, but like. It feels like it's a dismantling as in a dissolving, almost like if you put sugar in water, it's like, okay, so we dissolve into all right. I think I want, for example, like, I'm going to sell a mastermind in September. I want 30 signups. Like, that's what I think I want. That's what I'm going to work towards. That's what I'm going to endeavor towards. I'm going to remind myself what I want wants me to. And if I end up with 7 signups, instead of fighting with reality, I'm going to believe that this, this is the divine appointment. And in doing the work and where people, I think, run into real problems, much like with, the school that I got certified at mindset work. Some people are very angry about that. We actually have to bring curiosity. And I think a lot of people, when they're doing inner work, just try to gaslight themself, or they try to spackle what they think they should think or say onto reality, which is forcing and forcing is the opposite of listening to what is true and being curious. With self or curious with how this could be a gift from the divine so like 7 people signed up and I wanted 30 people to sign up. I don't tell myself. This is perfect. I don't tell myself. Just be grateful. I don't tell myself. This is what it was supposed to be. I get curious with myself. And for me, I like the tool of the work and. Other things that I do, but basically for me to be curious in that situation, which I can't do, because I'm not there, but to be curious, how could this be for me? And the curiosity, I think, is what, I think it's interesting. Like you said, you were unsatisfied maybe with the church that you left, but when you're. Child, what I heard was a curiosity. Like, wait a minute. How is this going to impact this child that I love so much? Curiosity is what gave you freedom or courage, but it was like, no courage needed. You were just like, oh, no, no, no, no, that doesn't work. Yeah. Curiosity I think is what unlocked it. That's such an interesting. Way to say that because a lot of the work that I do is, looking through the lens of internal family systems, which is parts work and that the very best way, the only way to understand. All of the different sensations and parts and longings and why you get mad and why you feel worthless and what makes you happy is. That there is this, you know. Symphony of your parts, one of which your ego showing up and probably lots of different parts trying to manage you and protect you and heal you and help you and comfort you and motivate you and that curiosity is the thing that we, as. An adult, being can bring to any of those interactions to learn more about ourself and learning about yourself allows such greater connection. I had something happen last week that has just kind of fascinated me. I was driving home from California to Arizona, long stretch, a very boring, nothing to look at road. I'm in the left hand lane and, a car in the right hand lane kind of comes up behind me and starts to speed up as if it's going to pass me on the right hand side. And instantly I sped up. I didn't even think about it just instantly sped up and I'm like, now we're in a race and the curiosity came in and I was like, oh, wait, what, what just happened? And a part of me said, we can't let them win. And I was like, oh, what, what are they going to win? Well, I don't know. They're, they're going to take something from us. What are they going to take from us? Is it like the road? Is it like the actual, they're going to take the road, the spot ahead of us? Yeah. And the more curiously I just sat with that impulse to, like, not let this car beat me, this part said they're, they're going to take something from us. And I was like, well, what? I don't know, but they're going to take something from us. And so I was able to just say there is nothing that they can take from us. Because I actually don't like driving like that. That's the realization that I've had is like, I don't, I don't like trying to speed around people and and contribute to, like, the general rise and road rage that I think I see out there. Um, but it was because. A part of me needed some attention and it needed to know it belonged to me, that I was not shaming that part that I was like, no, no, no, it's not bad that we're doing this, but let me just tell you. There's a little mistake happening here. There's nothing they can take from us and you are here with me and you belong to me and I love you. That part, that part, that's the belonging. That's the belonging to herself. I'm so glad you said that because I'm thinking, Oh, right. I'm sure some listeners like, what does it mean to belong to you? I belong to myself. Yeah. Yeah. That is the belonging. And that is the, like, sometimes I call it the integration or the distribution. Like that is the, yeah, you didn't exile or I hate that about myself. Like what? No, come here, honey. What did you say? And not as an attack, loving curiosity, the way we tend to children or pets. Yes. Oh, let's look into this on a good day, on a good day. But like how we tend, you know, it's that. Oh, that was such a good description. It's like, and then that part could like, relax and be with you. Totally relax. And I didn't it's like that compulsive speeding. This is admitting probably way too much, but I have driven, I have driven like that for decades where there's a competitiveness. There's a, like, my, I'm more important. My stuff is more important than your stuff. You need to get out of my way. All of that is being very, um. Open here, but it's because of parts who are like, something will be lost if we don't do this. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm here with you. I'm listening. You have my attention and you belong to me and we don't. Have to do that to matter. That's it. That's belonging to self and that's. Like, all of my energy, I feel, and it's like, right, that's the whole. And complete energy, not I matter if I win this race or as long as I am whole and complete, I am. Yeah. Then then I don't have to go faster than that car to matter. I just great. Yeah, fine. Go. So, for me, I want to get really specific here because I can also imagine. Someone saying, okay, so now that's belonging. What do I do 1st? Oh, I'm going to tell you what I did, but I can't wait to hear what you did, Sarah. So for me, none of this, none of this would have come together without a coach. And I don't just say that because I'm a coach. I spent another gift. And I mean, that that my mother gave me as I was depressed my senior year in high school for different reasons. And she. Found me a phenomenal therapist and, after college, I was in New York City and I got another therapist. So I've worked with many magnificent therapists and granted through the years. Everything's getting more sophisticated. Moral learning. But for me coaching in particular, um, I know that we have a mutual friend and like, she coached my face off and the multiverse unlocked. So I. Tell everyone with nothing but love. But I'm like, I actually think private coaching is in one on one coaching. I'm in tons of groups and I love that too, but I'm a fanatic for one on one coaching because of the sacred space. And because of the energy, when you find a coach that you trust and can relax into, and they can hold that space. And so for me, very specifically, I had what I like to call the year of personal growth in 2023, but we could summarize it as about 18 months of what the fuck is happening in my life. It was hard. I, I suffered, I suffered for about a year and a half and it was actually, my God, it was just over six months ago because I just renewed that I found a private coach who I deeply trust. And literally, I think it's interesting because we talked about this possibly before we were recording. The first thing that I found that we found in relationship, but that I was shocked was, and I hope this makes some of you laugh, especially given the name of this podcast. But I, we found out. I have a right to disappoint people. I can't know how that's landing for different people, but I just cried. Like, I remember being in that session. It was 1 of our 1st sessions. And when I realized and said out loud to her, I have a right to disappoint people. I'm a human. I have a right to be disappointing to some people like. 80 metric tons of internalized pressure and trying to belong to other people or be seen it's suddenly it was like in that in that space. I reclaimed my lovability and worthiness as an imperfection just want to make sure everyone's clear. I'm clear on that. Like, yes. Imperfection. Like, oh, I have definitely disappointed some people and my whole life. And that's okay. Like I am a human. It is not on me to not disappoint everyone I come in contact with. And that just unlocked miles of freedom for me. And since then, it feels like I was running a marathon wearing like 80 pound weighted vest and the vest was removed. And now I just get to walk, stop for coffee, jog. Like I'm still on my path, if you will, but it's just. lighter with greater range of motion. So that's my answer. How did you, and it took years. Yeah, for anyone listening, it's not like this 1 coach. Let me give you her name. It's like, no, no, no. There have been multiple coaches and multiple evolutions, but all of what feels to me, like, my greatest seasons of coming home has been private work with 1 person starting with that therapist. When I was in high school in the 90s. And certainly for the last, like, 5 years for me, finding a good private coach. I identify with. Something that you said in that, like the moment of a realization and how it just unlocks so many things. And for you, it's, I get to disappoint people. For me, it was, I can claim authority over my own life in the religious in Mormon land. I mean, technically you have some personal authority, but only if it lines up with what all the other authorities are telling you to do. And so you can't just. Really make decisions for your own life. That's the decisions have been made for you. Your job is just to faithfully walk this path that has already been decided for you. And I will just say for many years, I wanted that path. I wanted to just walk it. It was sure everything to me. And it was one of the greatest losses of my life to know that I no longer belong to that path anymore. And it was, Absolutely terrifying to step into a place of like, well, now what now? And to see my propensity to look like, well, who, who am I following now? What am I, who am I listening to now? And who's going to tell me what the right thing to do is now. And to say that out loud, I think a lot of people might be going, Whoa, that's some real indoctrination. Yes. And also I think that is a human experience like, who's going to tell me what to wear. Who's going to tell me what my hair should look like this season. I was in a coaching session when my coach said, why, what, what, what is it with this authority word? Because I kept trying to dance around it, call it something else. She's like, no. What is wrong with authority? And I had to unpack like authority hurts people. Authority could damage someone. And she's like, but is that what you are trying to do for you? And I'm like, no, I want to be sovereign. I want to be, but that terrifies me and I don't know how to do it, but making peace with, I am the authority in my life and no one can do that for me the same way I can. And if I don't do it. There will be a life that doesn't get lived and for some reason that unlocked it because I was like, if I am the authority now, what does that mean? What do I want that to look like? And all of these places of choice opened up and places where I still didn't feel like I had a choice because you can't be the authority in your life if you're still trying so hard to please everybody else. Those 2 things just have to exist in a different relationship. And so navigating. How do I honor and belong to me and still nurture healthy, loving, connected relationships where I am honest. Where I've shifted out of, like, maintaining a dishonest piece and into honest conflict. Honest conversation that was, that was the beginning of all of that. It's such a big deal, such a huge deal. And it's so individual, which is the other reason I think I'm obsessed with coaching it's not like, oh, everyone just know that you can disappoint people. Just know that you are the authority of your life. It's like each of us. It has everything to do with our specific upbringing, our specific values, our specific experiences, and then defined, like, That thing. Yeah. And to come back to, you talking about curiosity, it is the curiosity that will show you those things for yourself, which is interesting, because I actually think that's part of the value of the coach is I never questioned. And I see that, with my clients who I coach, so many of the things that we don't question because, like, we just think it's true. And it's, it's, it doesn't get old for me when my coach or as the coach, I'm like, excuse me, hold on. I'd like to ask you about such and such. And they're like, what, that might not be how it has to be forever. It's like, yeah, might be wiggle room. There might be wiggle room and that we can do a lot with some wiggle room. Is there anything in this conversation just as we wrap up here that you didn't get to say that you just want to make sure you name? I think the more that each of us, Choose to and lovingly, not as some idea of fixing self, but like are lovingly curious with ourself. And like, is this what I most love? And is this true for me? And all of that? I genuinely think that's healing the world because when I think of all the, uh, bad behaviors, as I'll call it. In the world, it all has to do with people who are rejecting pieces of themselves and acting out, you know, what they hate in themselves against someone else. And, um, otherwise, you know, feeling, feeling important, or, like, they have authority by criticizing other people. And so I just feel like every time we do this in our work, it is what absolutely creates more of what we want to see in the other world. And, like my desire, and I assume certainly everyone in your community is also desiring less surface level polite. That isn't honest or helpful and more authentic connection and authentic. Community vibes. And so that's what I want to say. Everyone, everyone, whatever, whatever tools support the shit out of you, please give yourself permission to be greedy with them. Because I think it's like the most generous thing it is, because then that's what whatever, um, self connection and belonging you create with yourself, you then bring to the world, which has such a huge change on, on individual relationships, which are the microcosms of all of our big relationships and corporations. And so I, I believe the same thing that the revolution that I want and every woman's life. Of being free of having choices of having loving connected relationships. That is just the microcosm for the world that we want to live in. And I'm just grateful to be doing that work alongside you and so many other good coaches and therapists. And I also want to name that as women in the wellness space, the thing that you said, I think that is most important is that no one needs to be fixed. Nothing is broken. Everything is like, no, I can't wait. Someone's gonna be like, you're gaslighting. So I'm sorry if I disappoint you. But yeah, I'm like, no, nothing's broken. We just, it's bringing the curiosity and love and being able to see it in its entirety. For lack of better terminology is the, I think magic. Well, thank you for being in that magic with me, Serena. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Me too.