Episode 92 - Grief Around the Holidays with Susie Ruth

The hopes and expectations we have going into the holiday season make this time of year particularly susceptible to feeling grief. In this week's conversation with Susie Ruth, an end-of-life coach and grief specialist, we discuss strategies for navigating grief and offer insights on how best to support someone grieving during the holidays. Here’s what we cover:

• The reason why we are more susceptible to feeling grief during the holidays
• Why the acronym B.R.A.T.S. will help you remember phrases and actions that DO NOT help you process your grief
• The process of learning more about grief is the first step to understanding how you can grieve and live at the same time
• How simply acknowledging your grief and that it’s okay to feel is an important healing practice 
• How to use the W.A.I.T. acronym to guide you in supporting someone who is grieving
• Why there is grief that comes with any transition in life

I can't wait for you to listen.

Find Susie here:
https://www.susieruth.com/ 
https://www.instagram.com/thegrieftender/
https://www.tiktok.com/@thegrieftender 

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

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Transcript

You are listening to the Ex-Good Girl Podcast episode 92.

00:05

You know, we're just going to have a little light discussion about grief here.

00:10

That's it.

00:10

Just it's like there's a power in discussing it because it uncovers so much of what we don't understand.

00:25

Right?

00:25

Like, why am I sad about this?

00:27

Yeah.

00:28

Well, before we get into much more, I want everyone to know who I'm talking with.

00:34

Suzie, how would you like to introduce yourself?

00:39

Thank you, Sara.

00:40

Well, I'm Suzie Ruth.

00:42

I started this work as a death doula.

00:45

I then found grief through that program and became a grief recovery specialist.

00:52

And then I still wanted to dig further into how I could help people.

00:57

And so that's when I met you and became a life coach.

01:01

And then I just kept on that journey.

01:03

And so now I would say I'm an end of life coach and a grief specialist is how I call myself now.

01:13

And I have known you for some time, and it has been so beautiful to see how you have incorporated grief work into healing the living, right, into healing the people who are still alive, who are still here, and how that has just kind of deepened your work and you as a person.

01:33

I've loved watching that.

01:35

Oh, I'm a different person now since you met me.

01:39

And I want to talk specifically in our conversation today around grief that comes up around the holidays.

01:46

Now, it's attached to a bunch of other things that have nothing to do with the holidays.

01:51

Let's just acknowledge that, you know, at the outset.

01:54

But I do think that there is something unique around the way that culturally and socially we go into the holidays, the ideas we have, the hopes, the expectations, the memories, the traditions, the messaging around like family-centeredness that really just makes this time particularly susceptible to feeling grief.

02:21

And because we're so bad at it, because it feels so overwhelming, I think we go to a lot of trouble and we expend a lot of energy and resources to avoid it.

02:35

And we kind of put it under this, well, I just, I don't understand this kind of, you know, we put it in the container of things we don't understand and we just kind of leave it there.

02:44

So what have you found about the holidays in particular?

02:50

Like, would you say that people are more susceptible to grief around the holidays or not?

02:55

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

02:57

Ah, you know, I think that, so I have a whole concept of grief.

03:02

Like one of the first things I ask people when I coach them is what is grief?

03:06

And usually the answer is like deep, dark sadness.

03:10

And I like to expand on that.

03:12

I like to say that grief is more like a container that we have like this house that holds love, that's homeless, basically.

03:22

And so once we have grief, we have it.

03:25

And that grief never changes.

03:27

It's like a structure that holds all of our emotions.

03:31

And I think that what happens during the holidays is that house becomes lit up.

03:38

Like really, literally like that house becomes lit up and all the emotions start coming up and become more present.

03:45

And so not just sadness, but there's all this longing and all of this like loneliness and all the other things that come along with grief that live in that house, they all become more… present during the holidays.

04:00

And I think that that's because we start to sense like other people's connection.

04:05

We lose, we miss our connection that we used to have and all of that stuff starts to become more present.

04:11

I think that also we have, there's an expectation for us to join the party.

04:17

And you know, this with the people pleasing is that one of the things that we've kind of been taught is to come to the party happy or don't go at all.

04:26

Right.

04:28

And one of the other things is we're we're supposed to, if somebody's sad to make them feel better.

04:33

And so there's all of these people pleasing things, expectations during the holidays, like we want everyone to be happy and I don't want everybody to think I'm sad.

04:41

And so there's all of this people pleasing going on during the holidays.

04:47

And we can't just show up to the party and just be like, I'm really sad.

04:51

And everybody go, yeah, I bet you are.

04:54

And just have it be okay with everybody.

04:56

Yeah.

04:57

Yeah.

04:58

Yeah, that's so interesting because if I'm having a holiday party and someone shows up sad and I've got the holiday music playing and i've I I can understand the impulse that I would have to cheer someone else up because I don't want to tolerate or I don't want to feel uncomfortable with their sadness, right?

05:21

I just want everybody to be happy and have a good time.

05:24

And that seems like it kind of comes from misconceptions that we have about grief.

05:31

And these misconceptions actually make the grieving process harder for those who have it.

05:38

And it actually separates those of us who want to help them and who want to show up for them in a loving, present way, it makes our jobs harder as well.

05:50

So can you speak a little bit to those misconceptions of grief that just make it harder for everybody?

05:56

Yeah.

05:57

Well, I call it BRATS.

05:59

I made an acronym.

06:00

So it's B for stay busy.

06:04

We've been taught thisAs it's been passed down from parents, it's been passed down through society.

06:10

Stay busy.

06:11

When someone's grieving, get busy, you know, go out and play, go do something.

06:15

And then R is replace the lost.

06:17

So don't worry, we'll get you a new one.

06:18

You know, don't be sad.

06:20

We'll, you know, we'll get you or there's more fish in the sea.

06:22

We hear that, you know, ohh he broke up with her.

06:25

There's more fish.

06:26

There's something better out there for you.

06:29

A is grieve alone.

06:30

So, you know, go to your room if you're going to cry.

06:32

R, discomfort with our kids' sadness.

06:35

makes us almost angry and just get out of my face.

06:38

It's not that bad.

06:40

T for time heals.

06:42

Just give it some time.

06:44

It's going to get better.

06:45

Give it some time.

06:46

And then S is stay strong for others.

06:48

You know, you're the man of the house.

06:50

You know, you're going to be strong for your mom now.

06:53

That kind of, those are all myths of grief that don't help grieving.

07:01

When we fall into those myths as grievers,It just prolongs the sadness and the heartache.

07:08

Yeah.

07:08

I'd love to hear you speak to like how exactly it prolongs the grief and heartache.

07:14

Because they don't work.

07:16

So if you replace the loss, it is a temporary fix.

07:20

It's almost like a buffer of the feelings, but it doesn't process the loss and you don't sit with the loss and feel it and let it be there and just grow stronger around it.

07:31

We just kind of cover it up.

07:33

The time heals, I think, actually makes grief worse.

07:37

The time heals myth, because what happens is people say, Just give it some time.

07:43

It's going to get better.

07:44

And that's kind of true in a certain amount of time, like six months, nine months, when after the acute grief starts to pass.

07:52

But after a certain amount of time, time makes it a little bit worse.

07:58

As the years go by, you start feeling more grief over the loss.

08:02

And then you start doubling down on your grief, like, I can't believe I'm still sad about this.

08:08

I should be over it.

08:09

And then, like, I'm sad that I'm sad, or I'm angry that I'm sad, or you know you start doubling down.

08:15

I'm anxious.

08:17

And so having this idea that you're supposed to be farther along than you are creates so much pain.

08:24

Most of my grief clients come to me because they say these words.

08:28

I just can't get beyond it.

08:30

I just can't get beyond it.

08:33

And really, the coaching on that is just like, that's the problem.

08:39

You think you're going to get beyond it?

08:41

Yeah, that there is a beyond it that you're supposed to get to where you don't feel this anymore.

08:48

When I love what you said about grief being a container that holds love.

08:54

that is homeless, that doesn't have anywhere to go.

08:56

And you will always have the love that you had for that person, or that thing, or that time, or that circumstance in your life.

09:04

And now that you don't have the place for that love to go anymore, of course, you're going to have the grief that comes with that.

09:13

So if a person is experiencing some extra grief around the holidays because you said like everything is just lit up with expectations and you know the social norms of holiday cheer.

09:32

What is the first thing you would encourage them to do if they're aware of how they feel and they don't know what to do and they might be thinking, I should get over this, I should be beyond it.

09:48

Well, I think that it's really important to learn a little bit about grief once you understand grief, like listening to your podcast and learning about grief as the first start of, oh, I'm never going to get beyond this.

10:02

I have to grow bigger around it.

10:04

And that that starts this process of, okay, it's okay that I'm grieving and I can continue living and grieving at the same time.

10:13

And it's okay to not feel happy.

10:16

and still be engaged in life.

10:20

Like it's okay to be sad.

10:21

There's not sadness isn't something we need to fix.

10:25

We've learned that it is the person we have written into our constitution.

10:32

That's so interesting.

10:33

Yeah, you're right.

10:34

It is.

10:35

Yeah.

10:36

And we do have this expectation that happiness is somehow even morally better.

10:44

Yeah, like that's the goal.

10:46

in life.

10:47

Yeah, for sure.

10:48

And what we're missing, which is one of the reasons I became a grief coach, is because as we progress through life and modernity and all of the things that happens with this pursuit of happiness, we're losing our compassion.

11:04

Because compassion doesn't come from happiness.

11:07

Compassion comes from sadness.

11:09

And so there's nothing wrong with being sad.

11:13

It's actually a really important and beautiful emotion for the human experience.

11:19

It creates a lot of pain.

11:22

It's not a comfortable emotion, but it's the growth emotion.

11:28

It's the dark emotion and darkness, you know, the darker the soil, the more fertile.

11:33

And so if you're sad through the holidays, that's okay.

11:37

Of course you are.

11:38

Of course you are, and it's okay.

11:43

So even just being able to say, Of course I'm sad.

11:47

Yeah, this makes so much sense.

11:50

I'm grieving and it's okay, is such a beautiful first step that I don't...

11:57

Oftentimes the most powerful things are also the most simple.

12:01

And that seems like a really beautifully powerful, simple way if this is a holiday for you and you're listening to this that is full of grief to be able to say to yourself, of course, of course, I'm grieving, and it's okay.

12:18

What if the griever wants to engage in holiday parties, in time with family, and feels a little uncomfortable about, you know, not wanting to put on the happy face?

12:35

What would you encourage them to either understand them for themselves or to say to the people whose parties and gatherings they might want to attend that make their grief more comfortable to have and still participate?

12:53

I love this question.

12:55

And it's a, and it's a difficult question because I'm not sure if, if you're wanting me to answer it, like,What do they say, the words that they say to their people or the understanding that what they need?

13:06

Because they need both.

13:08

Yeah, both.

13:09

Okay.

13:09

So to understand why it's important to engage is because I already told you what the myths of grief are, what grief doesn't, what doesn't help with grief.

13:18

But I'll tell you what does help with grief.

13:21

Grief needs to be witnessed.

13:23

It needs to be acknowledged.

13:26

So it needs to be, you know, like you need to say, I'm really hurting and have someone witness that.

13:33

Grief likes that.

13:34

That's healing for grief.

13:36

And grief needs ritual.

13:39

Grief needs a daily practice, something that you come to over and over and over again to stay stable in life because that stability helps you on those days, because you know if you're grieving that you'll have days that you think you're better.

13:55

It's like, I'm better.

13:56

I'm really actually, I think I'm through this.

13:59

And then three days later, you can't get out of bed and you're like, oh, I don't know what's wrong.

14:04

I thought I was doing so good.

14:06

I've gone backwards.

14:07

You know I got triggered by something and I thought I would be on this.

14:11

And you know you start to spin out and that daily practice that you do, whether it's a journal practice and a yoga practice and a painting, art, whatever it is, exercise, but it's something that you stay stable with every day.

14:28

A commitment to a daily practice is really important for grief.

14:32

What else is grief like?

14:33

It likes entanglement with nature.

14:36

When you spend time in nature and understand that we're not as separate from the trees as we think we are, that the trees and the stars and everything is all made of the same material that we are made in.

14:49

And then, and then you kind of commune and entangle yourself with that, that that sense of loneliness gets better because you're not alone.

15:00

You'll never be alone because you are part of nature.

15:03

And so spending time in nature is really important.

15:08

Those are so beautiful.

15:10

It brought a story to mind.

15:13

I was working with a client just a couple of days ago.

15:17

Her mother passed away three years ago now, and her mother used to put on these really beautiful, elaborate Christmas celebrations with lots of gifts.

15:27

And her father, now has you know a significant other and just gives her money.

15:34

And we were really coaching about the resentment that she feels about her father giving her money to buy gifts for her kids, which really is just another job for her now to do.

15:46

Right?

15:47

Yeah.

15:48

But as we were talking about it, I said it would also make a lot of sense to me if there were some grief here.

15:56

Because your mom isn't here anymore.

15:57

And she was the one who was so thoughtful and generous with the gifting that is now handled in a very different way.

16:06

It felt transactional to her.

16:08

And the minute I said it, you know her tears wielded, her voice cracked.

16:12

She said, But I don't know what to do with it.

16:13

And I said, Why if you just put your hand on your chest and say, I miss you, mom.

16:18

I miss you.

16:19

I miss that this is something that you did so beautifully and you took care of in such a generous way.

16:26

And I just, I miss that.

16:28

And so I find for the grief that I feel some like, you know, journal and yoga and painting. I am aspirational when it comes to those things.

16:40

Yeah But even if your ritual is just your hand on your body in a way that feels loving and comforting, and you focus on the heat and the weight of your own compassionate touch for you,And just take a minute to say, I do feel this grief.

17:00

This is grief.

17:01

And I miss or I wish, I long for, I feel, and just name it.

17:09

Yeah, absolutely.

17:11

Hundred percent.

17:12

Hundred percent.

17:13

That is so powerful.

17:15

I am a big believer in lighting a candle and spending intentional time missing your person.

17:22

Like, literally, I'm going to give myself 10 minutes to miss them and love them and tell them either out loud or in your mind, you know, all the things that you want to tell them.

17:35

That's fantastic advice for the person who is grieving.

17:41

What would you say to somebody who wants to show up for someone else who is grieving?

17:48

in a way that could actually help them by witnessing, acknowledging, like, what would you say to them?

17:55

That's the thing about this work.

17:57

It's really important for both sides.

18:00

The grievers need to learn this work, but the people that are wanting to support a griever.

18:06

I like the WAIT acronym.

18:09

Why am I talking?

18:11

If you have around a griever.

18:13

think about why am I talking is am I trying to help them feel better so I can feel better?

18:19

Yeah.

18:20

You know, am I trying to am I uncomfortable with their scenario, with their grief or their sadness?

18:29

Because we are all uncomfortable when somebody's really sad.

18:32

It really brings up our own sadness.

18:34

Is that what it is?

18:36

Like, you know, and so what I would like to say is there's nothing you can do to help a griever go through their process.

18:45

Grieving is something that we do alone, but we need others to do it with.

18:50

So the others to do it with means that you hold space.

18:54

And what hold space means is just be there.

18:58

Just be there.

18:58

And you don't have to say anything or do anything.

19:02

You just have to be there and say, thank you for sharing that with me.

19:07

Thank you for sharing that with me.

19:08

Thank you for sharing this time with me.

19:12

I want to be here with you.

19:14

I just want to be here with you, if you'll let me.

19:19

That's so beautiful.

19:20

And the times when I have felt grief and I have just been held or I have just someone has just sat next to me.

19:30

I think you're right.

19:31

I think in the mind of the person who wants to help, we're like, ohh what do I say?

19:35

What can I do?

19:36

How do I comfort this person?

19:38

How do I make it better?

19:40

And the WAIT acronym, why am I talking?

19:43

Fantastic.

19:44

Usually when I am that person who is like fumbling to try to say something, it's because I am making it mean that something has gone wrong and that I should know these magical words to say to make someone feel better.

20:03

And it really relieves a lot of pressure, I think, on me.

20:07

If I know listen there are no words I can say that are going to make this better.

20:12

This is a process this person has to go through alone but I can witness and I can acknowledge and I can say your grief makes sense.

20:21

Yeah.

20:22

That's it.

20:24

Makes sense.

20:25

Yeah.

20:26

Makes sense.

20:27

I can't imagine what you're feeling right now.

20:30

Yeah.

20:31

Because we don't we don't know what other people feel.

20:34

Even if we had the exact same loss my mom died of cancer so did mine.

20:37

I know exactly what you're feeling.

20:38

No you don't.

20:39

Yeah.

20:39

I have a dear friend and she she doesn't like that phrase I can't imagine what you'd be feeling because her response was just I would like for someone to try and to just try and imagine you know if I had just lost my mother who used to put on these amazing Christmas celebrations how might I be feeling when my dad hands me X amount of dollars and says you know go buy presence.

21:06

Oh that would be hard.

21:07

Yeah I like that.

21:08

And though I don't know exactly the quality of how you're feeling I can imagine that would be really hard.

21:14

So if you can imagine it and you feel like putting that into words great.

21:20

If you can't just affirming that it makes sense that you would feel this way.

21:25

I really understand it and you don't have to be happy in my presence.

21:31

I don't require that you paste on a pretend performative face so that I can feel better.

21:41

I love that.

21:42

I think that would be an amazing thing to say to someone who is grieving and you want them to come to the party.

21:49

Yeah.

21:50

But listen we don't need you to come and be happy.

21:54

We just want to be with you.

21:57

And you can take care of yourself any way you need to.

22:01

If you need to leave early if you need to come late if you need to take breaks we're you know we've prepared this little bedroom for you to go into and sit for a little bit.

22:11

Like you are free to show up however you need to show up and take care of yourself however you need to.

22:18

That would be beautiful.

22:20

That's a beautiful thing to do for someone who's grieving.

22:23

Holiday party or not right?

22:25

Any year round.

22:28

I also wonder is there a difference to you in grieving someone who has passed away versus grieving someone who is still alive where your relationship has changed or things have changed and the expectations you had of something that you would receive from them or a certain type of relationship continuing?

22:53

I know a lot of people that I know and work with in people pleasing when they stop pleasing others, oftentimes relationships change but the people aren't gone.

23:06

They're still alive and they're still there.

23:07

And so they continue to interact with them in a different way or yeah just I'm going to stop talking and let you answer.

23:15

Definitely grief.

23:16

Definitely grief.

23:17

So that's beautiful.

23:19

That opens up the whole discussion of what do we grieve?

23:24

And sometimes I don't even like to say that I am a grief coach because people think I don't need that because I'm not grieving.

23:33

I didn't lose anybody.

23:34

I didn't.

23:35

My parents are still alive.

23:36

I, you know, I'm not grieving.

23:39

And that is grief what you just mentioned.

23:42

That is grief.

23:43

We grieve anytime there's a transition.

23:47

So if you go from being single to married there's grief.

23:52

Right.

23:52

When you go from not being a mom to being a mom there's grief.

23:56

And it's very confusing because people are like why am I grieving?

23:59

I just had a baby.

24:01

That's a good point.

24:02

Yeah.

24:02

I should be happy.

24:03

I have this thing that I've wanted for so long.

24:07

Yeah there's grief anytime there's transition from one to the next.

24:12

So the relationship has transitioned to maybe dishonest to honest.

24:18

But everything has changed and this transition has changed everything and stirred it all up.

24:23

And there's always grief there.

24:25

Yeah.

24:26

Yeah and so when you talk about you know dishonest to honest that is a lot of people pleasing relationships because I was being dishonest about the peace that I was keeping or the ways that I always tried to please you.

24:40

And now that we have a more honest relationship, yeah that is a transition.

24:44

What else do we grieve?

24:47

So we grieve.

24:48

There's five gates to grief.

24:50

So everything we love we lose.

24:53

And we grieve the parts of ourselves, the outcast parts of ourselves that we were never loved like you know that the parts that were bullied or that we bullied ourselves.

25:02

And we grieve for unmet expectations.

25:06

So when we are brought into this world we have a there's an expectation for safety belonging and dignity.

25:13

And if one of those is missing in our childhood we'll have grief over that.

25:18

So unmet expectations.

25:19

We grieve for our ancestors.

25:20

You know how trauma gets passed down through the generation?

25:23

So does grief.

25:24

Everywhere there's trauma there's grief.

25:26

So we grieve for our ancestors and we grieve for the harm we've done.

25:31

So whether it was personally like a bully you were a bully when you were little there's grief there if you know better and you have grief for things that you've done.

25:41

But as a collective society to the harm we've done like to the environment to other cultures you know things like that.

25:48

And then we also grieve for you know the sorrows of the world.

25:52

We grieve for the wars that are happening and families that are being torn apart right now and things like that there's grief there the things that we've done to the earth.

26:01

So there's a lot of grief.

26:02

There's a lot of things we grieve.

26:04

Those gates of grief are from the work of Frances Weller and that final gate of grief the harm we cause is from the work of Desiree Attaway.

26:14

And that has helped me really really really understand why things make me sad and why there's grief.

26:23

'Cause I think a common question is like Why am I sad about this?

26:27

Why am I like I'm feeling sadness but I can't, like there doesn't seem to be a “good reason” but those gates of grief really helped me to better understand because inevitably it fits into one of them.

26:44

So I'm so glad that you brought those up.

26:46

How does someone know that they might need additional support around their grief such as a coach or a grief group?

26:59

I want to say everyone should get a grief coach right away because there's so much to learn from it.

27:05

It just opens up your whole world when you understand grief and work through like old griefs and things like unmet expectations especially.

27:14

That's a big grief that we all pretty much carry with us.

27:18

But I think if you are feeling like these waves of I'm okay and then one day you just are not okay.

27:26

And then you have that kind of like I don't know what's wrong with me.

27:29

I just can't get over this.

27:32

I think that's when it's time to actually find someone who can support you and like witness you and acknowledge that you might be grieving.

27:40

Yeah.

27:40

I don't think a lot of times people know they're grieving.

27:42

So if you have a hard time sitting down and relaxing.

27:47

If you're constantly busy, busy, busy, and the house is clean everything's perfect in your life you could be grieving.

27:55

You could be it could be grief that because every time you sit down and slow down the grief catches up to you and you have this urge to get up and do something.

28:04

That's a big one I think for a lot of the people that I work with.

28:06

And so if people wanted to find you and find out more about what you do as a grief coach where should they look?

28:15

Well they can go to my website.

28:16

It's SusieRuth.com.

28:18

S-U-S-I-E.com.

28:20

And I am the grief tender on Instagram and I'm the grief tender on TikTok.

28:26

We'll link to all of those in the show notes.

28:28

Susie as we wrap up here is there anything else that you wanted to say that you didn't get a chance to that you'd like to end with?

28:36

If you go to my website you're going to see that I'm a coach for men.

28:41

So it might be kind of confusing why I'm a coach for men but it's mostly that men follow me on my social media.

28:50

And then after the recent election I've found that men are feeling really disconnected and lonely and there's no place for them right now.

28:59

And they don't know they're grieving.

29:02

And I'm really basically a feelings coach.

29:05

As a grief person I'm a feelings coach.

29:07

And so I'm not putting grief on my website because people aren't aren't reaching out to me for grief.

29:13

They're reaching out to me because they are feeling disconnected and lonely.

29:16

So I coach everyone.

29:18

I'm really trying to get men in there because that's my way to heal the world.

29:25

I love that.

29:26

And I think I mean patriarchy sucks for everybody.

29:30

I think there are some ways in which the system of who gets to feel what is particularly hard on men in that they're not allowed to be sad right?

29:40

They're allowed to be angry but they're not allowed to be sad.

29:44

And that does such a huge disservice to them and to the people who they're in relationship with because all that grief has to be acknowledged and worked through.

29:54

It just kind of gets stuck.

29:57

It does.

29:57

It does.

29:58

Well thank you Susie so much for being here today and for this conversation.

30:03

Thank you Sara.