Episode 93 - How To Get Out of the Planning Trap with Priyanka Venugopal

“I just need a really good plan,” is a phrase that offers overachievers a sense of security, but the cycle of planning is often what holds us back from achieving our goals. In today’s episode, Dr. Priyanka Venugopal joins me to discuss why plans alone don’t deliver the desired results and how embracing a different, more informed strategy can lead to greater clarity, growth, and success. Here’s what we cover:

• Why just having a plan on paper is never going to create lasting results because we have to go the extra step to evaluate what actually works
• How planning triggers the reward centers of the brain because you are imagining doing the plan perfectly, but this often leads to inaction instead of achievement
• We know we can do hard things, but a plan shifts our focus to wishfulness instead of doing the work
• How to speak to yourself with compassion so your evaluation doesn't feel like self-punishment
• 5 questions to help you uncover the reason your plan didn’t work and how to adjust moving forward
• It’s possible to allow yourself to feel your emotions while also being curious and realistic
• Why it’s important to acknowledge your efforts every step of the way - not just when you get a result

I can't wait for you to listen!

Priyanka Venugopal is an Ob/Gyn physician turned Stress and Weight Loss Coach for professional moms who identify as overachievers and who want to lose weight with science backed strategies that will last a lifetime. For over 10 years she has talked with thousands of high achieving professional women and gotten to the root of the high achiever's biggest obstacles in hitting goals at work and on the scale.

Find Priyanka here: 
https://www.burnstressloseweight.com/
https://www.instagram.com/burnstressloseweight/
https://www.burnstressloseweight.com/blog

If you are looking for a podcast episode about body image, listen to my interview with Corinne Crabtree: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1984814/episodes/12877354

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!
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Transcript

You are listening to the Ex-Good Girl Podcast episode 93.

00:04

Over the next three weeks I am releasing three really powerful episodes with three friends and fellow coaches about time planning and goal setting which are just they're so good.

00:20

I can't wait for you to hear them.

00:21

And usually around January I start to feel almost a sense of dread like Oh gosh it's time to set goals. New Year's resolutions.

00:32

I actually love the idea of goal setting.

00:35

I love this season of you know winter time reflection.

00:39

I love looking at a new year and planning what I want to be different.

00:44

I want to grow.

00:45

I want to experience better ways of relating to myself and to others.

00:50

And I think you're here listening for those same things.

00:52

So these next three episodes are going to just be so good for you.

00:57

They're going to blow your mind.

00:58

They blew mine.

00:59

And really what it gave me is a set of tools to go into January with where I don't get caught in the same trap of thinking that is so tied to the good girl rules that really makes goal setting and planning and time management end up not working for me.

01:18

So enjoy them.

01:19

I would love to hear if you have some thoughts you want to share.

01:24

The DMs that I get about my podcast episodes are some of my favorites to read.

01:28

So let me know what you think.

01:30

I have Dr. Priyanka Venugopal with me today.

01:35

Priyanka is a friend, a fellow coach, and one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation is because she is a doctor, an OB/GYN turned stress and weight loss coach for professional moms.

01:48

And I know that's a lot of you, those of us who identify as overachievers and we also want to lose some weight for various reasons.

01:57

AndI will just say this.

01:59

I have other podcast episodes that go into the good girl rules around what your body is supposed to look like and how it's something that other people get to look at and they're supposed to be pleased with it.

02:11

That's not what we're going to be talking about in this conversation.

02:15

So if you want to remind yourself about those good girl rules I'm sure you can just think about it for a second and they'll all come to mind.

02:22

But I will link a couple of those episodes in the show notes if you want a refresher.

02:28

Our conversation today is really going to draw on Priyanka's like 10 years you've been doing this with thousands and thousands of high-achieving women and getting to the heart of two things where our work really overlaps which is perfectionism and stress responses and how those two elements come in and just the effect that they have on women's bodies in particular and if weight loss is something that you are interested in in weight loss in particular.

03:05

So anything you wanna add to that Priyanka?

03:07

Well first of all I'm so glad to be here.

03:09

So thank you all for being here and listening to this conversation.

03:12

And absolutely I think that it is it actually even touches on what we're talking about today like the all or nothingness around weight loss and how people do perceive their bodies.

03:21

So either it's because somebody else told us we have to look a certain way or we want to look a certain way.

03:26

And I'm like maybe there's so much gray in between.

03:29

So I think this is such a good conversation.

03:31

And you know I think one of the things that's really informed a lot of my perspective and my strategy is my experience as an OBGYN.

03:40

I would say the top three complaints I would see in my office would be low libidofatigue and difficulty with weight loss.

03:48

Women 35 and up they would have their first baby and then they would come in saying please check my hormones.

03:53

Something is wrong.

03:54

I have low libido fatigue or weight gain.

03:56

And after talking with thousands of women it's really sometimes you start to see patterns with overachievers or perfectionists that I just started to see you know that there's a serious mindset obstacle that a lot of us have that is getting in the way of us feeling better on and off the scale.

04:14

What is that mindset, the problematic mindset that you're talking about right there?

04:19

Yeah so I would say the number one lie that we tell ourselves I know that I told myself this is if I just had a really good plan then I will be able to either lose the weight I want hit that next personal goal the next professional goal I just need a really good plan and then I will insert the result that you want.

04:40

I have a story on this.

04:42

I remember when I was at my personal heaviest a few years ago I was a little over 200 pounds.

04:47

I remember somehow when that number hit 200 something really woke up in me where I said you know I really want to not just lose this weight but I want to have this energy to run after my kids.

04:57

They were three and six months at the time.

04:59

I was like I just want to run after them.

05:00

I did not have the energy to do that.

05:03

I felt this seriousness in myself.

05:05

I'm ready to take care of myself.

05:06

I have been taking care of everyone else forever.

05:08

It's my turn now.

05:10

So I did what all of us do type A you know overachievers I made a plan.

05:14

And I had a little calendar with color-coded you know very perfectionist meal plans and what foods I would be getting at the grocery store.

05:22

I even got my husband on board.

05:23

So I'm like listen he's naturally skinny.

05:26

He can eat three dinners and not gain a pound but I'm like you're not allowed to bring in my favorite Cool Ranch Doritos.

05:32

We're all going on this adventure.

05:35

And I started losing weight so as we do we have a great plan.

05:39

We all put the plan 'cause our motivation is high and I started seeing results.

05:44

And I wanna say I probably lost like that first 10 pounds.

05:46

I'm like patting myself on the back like go girl you're doing so well.

05:50

And then one day in the middle of my office I was seeing patients back-to-back patients running behind people were getting mad in the waiting room one of those scenarios.

05:59

And I got a call from my son who was in preschool at the time from the assistant principal and she's like Dr. Venugopal everything's okay.

06:09

You know as they say like your kid is safe.

06:11

And also we need to have a little conversation about him.

06:15

And we need to kind of talk about how we're gonna support him because we had a couple of incidents happen this week and we're kind of concerned about how we can best support him in the classroom.

06:24

And I remember at that moment I had a flood of emotions enter my body in that moment.

06:33

Number one I was already feeling a little bit behind with my workflow in the office I was frustrated.

06:39

I felt worry about my kid.

06:42

Why is he different than the other kids?

06:43

How come I am the one that always has to get these phone calls about him?

06:46

What's wrong with him?

06:47

What's wrong with me?

06:49

Where am I going wrong?

06:50

A lot of those thoughts.

06:52

Then I had some entitlement and some indignation.

06:54

Why didn't they call my husband?

06:56

Why are they calling me and not my husband?

06:58

I had a slew of all these thoughts.

07:00

And I remember I got home that day I was irritable with my kid my poor little three-and-a-half-year-old at the time.

07:06

I was annoyed with my husband.

07:08

Just overall we can all imagine like that snippy scenario.

07:11

And that evening I put the kids to bed and cleaned up the kitchen and I was like This is my break.

07:16

I just need a break.

07:18

That amazing plan on paper went right out the window.

07:22

The plan that I was loving that I was losing weight with that I was feeling good with went right out the window.

07:27

And I sat down from my Netflix plop down Cool Ranch Dorito Nacho Night with the extra glass of wine because I just needed a break from feeling so many emotions.

07:37

And of course the next day I woke up I felt a lot of regret not just because the scale was up which of course it was but my gut felt so terrible.

07:45

And I felt like Priyanka, the stress I still have to deal with my kid.

07:50

Turns out I ate the Cool Ranch Doritos and I did the wine. I did the Netflix but it didn't solve anything.

07:56

And there was a moment that happened for me in that moment where I realized just having this plan on paper is not enough.

08:03

If I want to lose the weight and most importantly keep it off for a lifetime I'm going to have to learn some additional skills which is how I want to navigate the plethora of feelings I'm going to have as a busy professional working mom.

08:17

That was where I really started to see just having a plan on paper wasn't enough.

08:26

I really identify with that cycle of what one of our other coaching colleagues calls this perfectionist fantasy where you have this perfect plan and it's color-coded and it's on the calendar and you know exactly what you're going to eat every single day.

08:44

I identify with loving the perfection of it and just seeing it in front of me that beautiful plan.

08:52

And there is no room to mess up at all ever.

08:57

Because I didn't have and I did the same thing you did over and over again I didn't have the elasticity in my emotional life to rebound from messing up quote unquote like eating something I quote unquote wasn't supposed to be eating.

09:14

And it was always motivated by big feelings.

09:17

Always motivated by some big thing that had happened that I either didn't feel prepared for or like I could really handle and the food just kind of took it away.

09:26

For a little while.

09:28

Yeah.

09:28

You know I described like a really charged situation where I was behind in the workplace and I was annoyed with my husband even though he didn't tell them to call me.

09:37

I described a really charged scenario but you might notice this coming up simply just by feeling bored.

09:43

Tiny.

09:44

It might be tiny.

09:45

You're so busy in the workplace you finally settle in the evening you just feel bored and you don't wanna feel bored.

09:49

So this applies what we're talking aboutIt applies for big charged like a rubber band of feelings and it applies for the tiny little it almost feels like nuisance emotions where if we don't understand the skill which we're going to talk about just having a plan on paper is never going to create lasting results.

10:08

And I wanna take this to the next step what I would do and I think I'm curious listen if you identify as an overachiever this may be you, you'll go back to making another plan.

10:18

And this is what I have had to learn over the years.

10:21

I've seen this come up when I was studying for oral board exams.

10:23

I'd make a calendar which chapters I was going to read in the OB textbook and the GYN textbook but then I didn't do it 'cause I procrastinated.

10:30

And then we'll do two chapters tomorrow.

10:32

And then two chapters tomorrow turns into four chapters the following week and now we're behind.

10:36

And now I have to make a whole new plan because we don't want too many red marks.

10:41

I shared that story to say that planning feels very productive.

10:46

And the lie that a lot of us might tell ourselves is I just need to plan more, plan better, plan again and have a fresh start to see results.

10:57

But what we are not doing is getting into I wonder why that plan failed.

11:01

I wonder why that plan that was like the Cadillac of plans I wonder what happened there right?

11:07

And before we make a plan again to gather that wisdom which I think is the most skipped step for most overachievers.

11:16

I love that because I can clearly see this cycle in my own life.

11:22

You plan, you have a plan that's perfect.

11:24

The plan fails so you go back to planning.

11:27

The plan fails, you go back to planning.

11:29

The plan fails, you go back to planning.

11:31

And I've heard you say before like you can't out-plan perfectionism.

11:36

And I think this is the cycle you're talking about.

11:39

Absolutely yeah because planning- see if you think about planning is safe.

11:44

Planning is very comfortable.

11:45

Planning is familiar.

11:47

Planning is talking about the idea of success.

11:51

So the reason planning feels good and you will likely get a dopamine hit simply from researching and planning and making your color-coded calendar your brain is lighting up with endorphins and dopamine simply because it is imagining you at your goal.

12:06

It's an imagination.

12:08

So the part that's so fascinating to me is planning and our brain learns our brain gets trained every time we release dopamine we're rewarding our brain we're rewarding the planning phase because we're like this is productive.

12:20

And the lesson we also then learn secretly this is a kind of a subconscious lesson we learn is not taking action.

12:28

We stay in inaction.

12:30

And so that's the perfectionism piece.

12:32

Perfectionism is basically we end up avoiding action which is uncomfortable.

12:37

which requires courage which requires messing up and getting it wrong and having to look at the mess up and looking at them.

12:42

That's all a lot of action and it feels more uncomfortable.

12:46

Perfectionism is like we need to feel better.

12:50

We need to feel a little bit more solid, a little bit more certain, a little bit more confident before we can go do that hard work.

12:55

We'll stick to planning instead.

12:57

This is why we try to out-plan the perfectionism because we say I need to just feel good or confident first.

13:03

I'm like No no.

13:03

noYou need to feel terrible first.

13:06

And then like that's kind of how we have to start walking out of that habit.

13:10

Okay.

13:11

I really want people to hear this because it even feels like for me I'm hearing it in a new way.

13:18

And this is something that I have conversations about all the time.

13:23

Planning is the productive part that triggers all that dopamine and the reward centers of the brain because you are imagining doing the plan perfectly.

13:38

Yes.

13:38

It's like ohh when I made my whole calendar with all the OB/GYN chapters I'm like oh I'm going to be so smart.

13:45

Once I do this whole plan I'm going to have hit my goal weight.

13:48

So that is releasing our brains like this is amazing if we executed it perfectly.

13:54

This is all subconscious.

13:55

So if this is you if you feel like I'm calling you outIt is because this is normal.

14:00

Our brains are designed to expend the lowest amount of effort.

14:04

And this is one of the ways.

14:05

It's like so sneaky and brilliant to be like let's just plan.

14:08

It feels really really productive.

14:11

It does.

14:12

And the mistake is in the imagination of arriving at the goal by completing this perfect plan and not imagining what we're going to do when we're a regular human.

14:26

who gets a call while they're at work and stressed and behind in their schedule and you know there's a conversation that needs to happen about your son or just sitting on the couch and you're bored and you're antsy and you're not feeling like there's something exciting happening in your life like big emotions small emotions.

14:46

We're not trained to be- I don't know if honest is the right word or realistic about what the actual human experience is.

14:54

and build that into the plan not as a problem but as like this is the part of the plan.

15:02

Yeah so you're touching there are two pieces to this and I wanna talk about them separately.

15:06

I think that it will be useful for somebody hearing this.

15:09

When we really instead of just planning again blindly like let me print out a brand new calendar with my new color-coded pens, let me just do that all over again.

15:17

Instead if we take the extra step to evaluate I wonder what I missed here I wonder why I went off track.

15:24

Where did I make some decisions that didn't take into the structure of my life?

15:28

Did I really plan to read three chapters of OB/GYN on a Friday night 00 after working all week?

15:34

What were the decisions I made?

15:35

Did they really make sense?

15:36

Were they thinking about the real structure of my life?

15:38

So being realistic.

15:40

We almost never get that leveraged information because we're not being realistic and curious.

15:44

So that's the first piece.

15:46

And then the second piece that I really have been thinking a lot about isAs an overachiever I do hard things all the time right?

15:54

You do hard things all the time.

15:55

I think a lot of women say I can do hard things.

15:58

We can double down and do things for short periods of time.

16:02

But when it comes to really hitting our goal I think sometimes we forget the purposeful step of accepting there's going to be effort involved.

16:10

So there's like this wishfulness.

16:12

There's a wishfulness of like I want to just not want the food.

16:17

There's a wishfulness of I just want to not scroll my phone and I want to just read the chapter.

16:23

So what ends up happening over time again our brain learns I need to just feel motivated all the time.

16:28

I have to just feel excited and committed and determined all the time to execute consistently on the plan.

16:35

And the moment we don't feel motivated or excited we're like see like hmm I just don't want to.

16:40

And we forget that there's an effort a purposeful effort there that we can actually bridge the gap on but it requires understanding that this is a normal part of the process.

16:52

Okay.

16:53

I want to talk about those two pieces with a little more detail because evaluation it's interesting for me in the focus on people pleasing, evaluating why I pleased, why I went ahead and did the thing that I said I didn't want to do is a huge part of having compassion for myself as a human.

17:18

And so I think especially in the weight loss realm I was so used to like come on what is the matter with you?

17:27

Just do it.

17:28

Why are you eating these fill in the blank right?

17:32

Just stop it.

17:33

Just stop.

17:35

And that evaluation there was no compassion in it right?

17:40

No like of course you want Cool Ranch Doritos.

17:44

They are literally like made so that you want to eat them.

17:48

And I think without like you mentioned curiosity I just want to add some compassion that makes evaluating not like an indictment of like where I did all the things wrong but an actual opportunity to look at likeThese decisions do they make sense for the life that I live?

18:16

It reminds me of when I started keeping track of like the time it took me to do things.

18:22

Like I would say I'm going to sit down I'm going to write an email in 20 minutes.

18:26

And then I would actually keep track and it took me 30 to 45 sometimes over an hour.

18:32

And how unkind I was being to myself by having a plan that was literally not realistic.

18:40

And I was able to give myself more time from that compassionate evaluation.

18:45

And so that is like why did this plan fail?

18:49

What were the decisions that led me here?

18:51

Do they make sense for my life?

18:52

I love those questions.

18:54

Yeah I think that this is the difference.

18:56

The way that I talk about evaluation with my clients is coming from the lens of a playful scientist.

19:02

And as opposed to kind of what you're describing is it's not actually an evaluation it's more just a punishment.

19:09

So we are asking questions rhetorically you know when you're saying like Why did I do that?

19:14

It's not actually a question.

19:15

Really what you're doing is you're just yelling at yourself.

19:18

You shouldn't have done that.

19:19

So we might just throw a question mark on at the end of things but it doesn't make it a question.

19:23

So what I've really started to see is when we think about putting on the hat of a playful scientist and ask ourselves I'm thinking about that example with my Cool Ranch Doritos and my bottle of wine.

19:34

If I was coming from that really curious playful lens place I would ask myself Priyanka girl, what happened here?

19:42

What was going on for you?

19:44

And the way that I break down evaluations is in my experience with high achievers it's one of five things.

19:51

Was I missing nutrition today?

19:52

Did I eat enough?

19:54

As working moms busy professionals I know from me and my clients we will miss breakfast and lunch and we'll skip things because of meetings so maybe I just had the desire to eat because I actually didn't get enough food today.

20:04

Guilt-free rest is another one.

20:07

Have I been resting at all this week, this month?

20:10

Or have I just been going and putting myself at the back and running on fumes?

20:15

No surprise that my brain is trying to offer me a break.

20:18

Number three, play.

20:19

Am I playing at all?

20:21

Am I doing fun things outside of food and alcohol?

20:24

Because if I'm not, my brain is learning.

20:26

Food and alcohol is my only way to have fun.

20:29

Number four is movement.

20:30

There's so much science and data on simply getting outside and going for small walks, like actually your body feels safe.

20:38

Like, oh, I don't have to run from this lion.

20:40

Like we can actually go for a gentle and leisurely walk.

20:43

It creates so much safety for us.

20:45

And then the fifth piece is, of course, mindset.

20:47

So, you know, when I do an evaluation from a playful scientist place, I'm asking like, Priyanka, what's up?

20:53

What was missing?

20:54

What happened?

20:55

And then in this specific scenario, I would have gotten to mindset.

20:59

which is, oh, you were so mad and so angry.

21:03

Of course, your brain offered you a break.

21:05

That's all it was.

21:06

So it's kind of interesting, right, when we think about playful scientist energy versus punishment.

21:13

I love that because it's actually the way that I evaluate things with my kids.

21:19

Like when something didn't go wrong, I was like, okay, walk me through what was happening for you and just tell me how you got to this decision.

21:27

because I am more interested in understanding you than punishing you.

21:33

And if I'm missing something, like now's the time to tell me.

21:37

And I'm sure that we can work, like I have a collaborative way of parenting with my older, now teenager kids you know who are ready for that and who really respond to that of like, I just want to better understand you, because from my experience, these aren't decisions that are going to help you.

21:57

But I want to work together with you and not just like, Hey, you're grounded, which that's the playful scientist in action in these questions.

22:07

And I love these things.

22:09

Was I missing nutrition?

22:11

Was I getting guilt-free rest?

22:13

Was I playing enough outside of food and alcohol?

22:15

That's such a good thing.

22:17

Usually, we will find so much wisdom when we come into you know that failed moment or the pound up on the scale.

22:24

And I know this is the part that's hard because we are so practiced at either doubling down, like I'll just do a longer fast tomorrow to undo the damage, or this is me trying to read three chapters instead of one because I got behind.

22:36

So this is again, a big thing with perfectionism procrastination, we start to overwork to get out of the overwhelm.

22:42

And so now we're spiraling in creating a lot more optional stress and overwhelm on top, but we come in from that lens, we actually get wisdom.

22:51

So in this situation, what I undercovered was like, I got so mad and so sad and so worried.

22:57

And that feeling felt so big for me that my brain offered me food.

23:01

And now the solution for me is like, oh, I wonder what was so terrible about me feeling that sadness.

23:07

So I was thinking about my son who recently ran, he's nine years old, he's in fourth grade.

23:11

He recently ran for class treasurer.

23:14

And you know, a little back story about my son.

23:16

He has had a challenging, well, he's had a challenging way in elementary school.

23:21

Let's just say he has like a handful of friends and he's been navigating it, you know, just being who he is.

23:28

He comes home and he says, mom, I'm probably not gonna win, but I'm going for it.

23:32

If you don't play, you can't win.

23:33

I'm all in.

23:34

I'm like, oh, okay.

23:36

So he got really excited about his speech, delivers it.

23:40

And it was so cute, such a cute speech.

23:42

We find out the results, this is three or four days ago now, he did not win.

23:47

So initially he comes home and he's acting like it's not a big deal.

23:50

And I'm thinking it's not a big deal, but that night as he's going to bed, he says, mom, I can't believe I didn't win.

23:56

Maybe it was my thumbnail.

23:59

Maybe it was the song that I chose.

24:00

He was trying to make sense of his loss.

24:03

This is what a lot of us do.

24:04

We start to look for where can I blame why I'm feeling this disappointment or anger.

24:08

We try to blame.

24:09

I'm blaming my husband.

24:10

I'm blaming my kid.

24:11

I'm blaming my time or my boss.

24:13

Just like that.

24:13

He's trying to blame.

24:14

I figure why am I feeling this way?

24:17

My work with him at that moment was your disappointment is so normal.

24:22

What if we don't have to talk ourselves out of it or fix it right away or have the Cool Ranch Doritos to numb it, what if we can actually practice growing our capacity, our tolerance for sad, worried, angry, frustrated?

24:36

Like imagine what that kind of super skill would do in the face of our very naturally occurring perfectionism.

24:43

Yeah, this is so relevant to everyone who wants something and doesn't get it, to go into like,blaming and trying to figure it out rather than to just feel that feeling of disappointment.

24:58

And I mean, I know this probably this is probably hitting the podcast episode in January, and there's a lot of post-election, you know, feelings that people are trying to work through by not just feeling the feeling of disappointment or grief or worry or whatever it is.

25:17

And I love that you're focus, like what's so terrible about just feeling the feeling?

25:26

Yeah.

25:27

And I think for for women like us, at least for me, it feels sometimes either indulgent or complacent when when we, like, you know, for me to say to my my son, for example, like, I know you're disappointed, like, and just sitting with it, it feels almost like we're ignoring their disappointment or we're not fixing, you know, if we're not fixing it, we're being complacent in solving the problem.

25:48

And this is where I think we go awry.

25:49

This is why we go into punishment and criticism, because we think that that's more active.

25:54

And what I kind of want to offer to anyone listening to this is when we're really leaned in to allowing an emotion, it's actually a very active sport.

26:04

Feeling worried or discouraged after this election, it's an active sport to allow the emotion.

26:10

And at the same time, so there's two things that can be true at the same time.

26:13

So I can allow this emotion.

26:15

And at the same time, playful scientist is not just sitting on the on the bench, not doing anything.

26:20

Playful scientist is like, huh, this experiment didn't work.

26:23

I wonder why.

26:25

It's so curious, it's active.

26:27

It's like, I wonder what I might wanna do differently next week.

26:31

My son's already like, next time I run, I'm gonna change the thumbnail.

26:33

I'm like, well, is that really what the issue was?

26:35

But okay, so like already,coming into our strategy and our next solution from a, it's a place of wisdom.

26:43

It's not complacent to allow an emotion because we're going to do action at the same time.

26:48

And I think this action that you're talking about is part of the second piece that I wanted to dive into you, and that's accepting that there is going to be effort involved.

26:59

So one of the efforts involved is feeling feelings.

27:03

Yep.

27:04

In that very active, loving, generous, present way.

27:09

I also just love that you said that when our brain is conditioned in the planning mode, that this feels so good and excited and motivated, and all of those feelings come to the surface that really kind of fuel action.

27:25

Oh my gosh, I identify with that so much.

27:28

And then just there's a failure, right?

27:31

Or the plan doesn't go the way we want.

27:33

And my brain says, see, it's not working.

27:35

Go back to planning.

27:36

Right.

27:38

It's a fascinating pattern to catch.

27:40

You know When I think about that moment of putting an effort, the example I'm thinking of is like, okay, it's time.

27:45

00, I'm going to read this chapter in this GYN book.

27:48

I have to read it for my oral boards.

27:50

There will be a very normal moment.

27:53

Nothing is going wrong when our brain's like, oh, I don't want to.

27:56

Ohh I would rather watch a movie or I'd rather just chill with my husband.

28:01

That's normal.

28:02

Our brain is just making a suggestion.

28:04

She's just making a little suggestion to avoid putting forth the full effort, because putting forth the full effort of opening the chapter and reading this book is, I'm asking my brain to stretch.

28:15

I'm actually asking my brain to challenge itself to learn new information.

28:19

There's an expenditure of energy there.

28:21

So I think this is one of those things like if we are actually anticipating, our brain might offer us an urge to go off track and to procrastinate and to scroll our phone, and I think overachievers will procrastinate to work.

28:32

So we may not open up our phone, but we'll go fold the laundry or clean the kitchen rather than opening the chapter 'cause it's productive.

28:39

So there's so many brilliant ways that our brain is like, let's just not put forth the full effort now because there's like this irritation in our brain to stretch.

28:48

And I'm like, we need to learn how to welcome and not just welcome, fall in love with that piece of the process, of putting forth the full effort and stretching and growing and learning.

28:58

Because when we do that,then taking action starts to become so much simpler.

29:05

Okay, so the obvious question, at least for me is, how do we learn to fall in love with the irritation of feeling the challenge and expending that energy?

29:18

Yeah, so I love that you're asking this.

29:20

I teach this framework, I call it the ABCDE framework.

29:24

And I'm gonna just tell you each piece of the process, A is awareness and acknowledgement,B is breath, taking a beat.

29:32

C is courage.

29:33

D is do it anyway.

29:34

E is elate and evaluate.

29:36

So I'm gonna tell you why I told you this framework.

29:38

So there's that moment that comes where your brain is gonna be like, I don't feel like it.

29:42

I'm supposed to work on this project.

29:44

That's what's on the calendar.

29:46

That's a decision I made.

29:47

And the moment will come with, ooh, I don't feel like it, let's go do something else instead.

29:52

The first step is being aware of that sentence.

29:55

Oh, this is just me wanting to not follow the plan.

29:58

I'm so used to just procrastinating.

30:00

We're not making ourselves wrong.

30:02

We're not adding the judgment and the, oh, I can't believe you were like, of course.

30:05

I like to get a little like humorous with myself.

30:07

I'm like, of course I want to go and watch the movie instead of read this chapter.

30:10

Like who wouldn't?

30:12

So playfulness, I'm aware, I'm acknowledging it.

30:14

B is breath.

30:16

Just taking a beat and breathing.

30:19

I like to think about box breathing, breathing in for four, holding it for four, out for four, holding it for four.

30:25

It calms our nervous system so when we when you know we have an urge to not follow through, instead of reacting to it, we can respond.

30:34

So reacting, we can take a minute and just, we're like proving to ourselves we're safe.

30:40

This chapter is not a lion that I need to run away from.

30:43

It's totally okay.

30:45

Seize courage.

30:46

This is the moment.

30:47

I'm saying it's uncomfortable to put in the full effort to open the chapter, to read this when I don't feel like it, I'm not motivated at all right now, there's a courage there, courage doesn't feel good.

30:58

It feels like, well, actually.

31:00

Do it anyway.

31:02

That's D, do it anyway.

31:03

So whatever you had on the plan, do it anyway.

31:06

And when you do it after doing A, B, and C, you don't need willpower to do it anyway.

31:11

You actually do it from a very different place, from that place of courage, that place of like, I've got this, let's go.

31:18

And then E is elate and evaluate.

31:21

E is… celebrating, following through, recognizing yourself, like, girl, look at what we just did.

31:27

We just followed through on the chapter.

31:29

Go us, pat on the back.

31:30

It actually releases dopamine to celebrate you taking the action you said you would, and your brain gets rewired.

31:37

It's like, ooh, that felt really good to do what we said we were going to do.

31:40

Maybe we should do that again.

31:42

And as you do that again and again and again, and then you evaluate, it's evaluating, did I put this chapter at the right time in my week, did I build it in on a Friday at eight o'clock?

31:52

Maybe next time we don't do that.

31:54

Right next time when I'm going to build in this chapter, maybe I don't do it Friday night, movie night.

31:58

So now evaluation is going to allow us to be dynamic with our decisions.

32:03

We get to remake decisions, change decisions, and rinse and repeat.

32:07

I love this, especially elate and evaluate, because one common, common, common thing that I see is overachievers don't celebrate.

32:15

We don't get a pat on our back for just doing what we are supposed to do.

32:20

And so that's how this kind of grind becomes, I mean, we hope that other people notice us and other people celebrate us.

32:29

And like that's kind of the most we can hope for is to you know get that pat on the back or the recognition.

32:36

But to just give that to yourself is such a beautiful thing.

32:41

And it's hard, even to this day, and I've been doing this now for years, and it's work that I feel so passionate about, even to this day, I feel it's hard for me to receive acknowledgement from myself, even to this day, it's like, I think a lot of us are ready to move on to the next goal.

32:56

Or we think, you know, if I lost a pound, it wasn't really enough.

32:59

I'm actually just making up for yesterday anyway.

33:01

So does it really count?

33:02

Can I really celebrate this?

33:04

And it keeps this perpetual not enoughness with whatever goal we are hitting.

33:10

And I think that's why we perpetually feel deprived of pride, right?

33:14

We're like constantly chasing and making more plans.

33:17

Because we haven't taken that pause to stop and recognize ourselves for the effort we are putting forth.

33:22

Like no wonder our brain doesn't repeat the pattern every time.

33:25

If I'm not celebrating the way that I am showing up, if I'm not celebrating myself for following through, why would my brain repeat the pattern?

33:32

That's such a good point.

33:33

Like if I'm not building in that celebration and that really.

33:38

that joy of like recognition, self-recognition.

33:41

Why would my brain want to do it again?

33:43

Especially when there's a cookie right there, where there is a very definite pattern of feeling good, at least for the moments when I'm eating it.

33:53

Chemically, food like Cool Range Doritos and cookies are chemically going to just release.

33:58

They're going to do the work for you.

34:00

So that's the effort, right?

34:02

So the cookie is our brain's gonna want the lowest effort option.

34:05

Scrolling and the cookie and the chips is the fastest way to have that dopamine and endorphin release.

34:10

We're here talking about, what if there was another way to create that feeling of feeling good?

34:16

I often think about my daughter, she is now six.

34:18

And I think about, every time, so she's into soccer, and imagine with our children, and I think a lot of us have done this, so this is you, again, me too.

34:28

If we only celebrate her scoring goals, and that's the only time we celebrate her, that's the only time I clap for her, is when when the ball goes into the net, what does she subconsciously learn?

34:39

She learns, oh, I'm only worth celebrating when I make a goal.

34:44

And so no amount of her practice, no amount of her drills, no amount of her running around the field, even if she assisted on every other goal, will just not be enough.

34:53

Because at some point, she's learning the lesson, my mom is only clapping for me when I make a goal.

34:58

This is what all of us have unfortunately and inadvertently have happened to ourselves when we were really little.

35:05

I remember the big people in my life, when I got an A, they're like, Priyanka, that's really good.

35:10

Good job.

35:10

The lesson I learned is, ohh this is when I am good.

35:13

Not that the A was good.

35:15

I learned, Oh, Priyanka is good when she gets an A.

35:17

Priyanka is good when she gets this answer correct.

35:19

So notice there's so many ways that we've been programmed where just the result is worth celebrating and not the effort to get there.

35:27

What about all the effort of studying, of opening the chapter, of, you know, waking up early or sleeping late and like being like doing the committed work?

35:38

Imagine if we celebrated that.

35:40

You've just given me another layer of understanding, because celebrating is something that I do with my clients.

35:47

We do it in group coaching.

35:48

I'm like, tell me what's good.

35:49

Tell me what's working.

35:50

And I say all the time, we celebrate awareness.

35:54

I noticed I don't like this thing anymore.

35:56

I noticed a dynamic.

35:57

I can't change it yet.

35:59

I'm not to where I have the skills yet to actually do something different.

36:03

ButLike, we're creating rewards around the patterns we want our brain to repeat, which is the effort, putting in the effort, not actually even getting the desired result.

36:17

Because you know this from working with your own clients, people-pleasing and coming out of people-pleasing and perfectionism is a journey of a thousand steps, right?

36:27

And And for a lot of the people listening to this, people-pleasing is the cookie.

36:33

Right?

36:33

Like, it's the fastest way to a dopamine hit.

36:35

If I'm feeling the tension of someone wanting something or needing something from me, the easiest way to feel good is to just do it for them.

36:43

And I get that momentary hit.

36:45

And then later, I'm like, gosh, why did I agree to this?

36:49

Or why did I say I would do this?

36:50

So you're really helping me better understand why the celebration piece is so important.

36:57

Because we don't...

36:59

If we only celebrate the moments when we don't people please, when we stick to the plan, when we make the goal, there's a loss of opportunity to celebrate all the effort that gets us there and that makes that effort, that recognize it as an essential part of the plan and not just all the terrible things we have to do to get to the part where we get to celebrate making the goal.

37:26

Yeah, and I think, and I'm not sure how you know people feel about the word celebration.

37:30

For me, celebration has always felt like a lot of pressure.

37:34

So for anyone that feels like, oh, I can't just celebrate my effort, that feels like it's not like matching, I can only celebrate a win.

37:41

If that's you, even to me, what has landed much more deeply than even celebration is just acknowledgement.

37:48

Just like putting a hand on my heart, this takes literally 60 seconds, I'm so proud of the effort you put in today.

37:55

That is it.

37:57

It's like when I tell my daughter, like, I loved how hard you ran across the field.

38:01

You know when I say that to her?

38:03

Her little face, she has like this tiny little face.

38:05

She has this huge smile on her face.

38:08

Mom noticed me running across the field.

38:10

And it sounds, these are like such tiny little examples, but imagine that we threaded in these little moments of acknowledgement throughout our day.

38:20

And this might feel really disconcerting because without realizing it, a lot of overachieving women are not feeling good a lot of the time.

38:28

We're feeling perpetually behind or inadequate or worried or overwhelmed.

38:31

So this is a pathway to feel better.

38:34

It might feel actually disconcerting.

38:36

Like, can I actually, can I actually feel good right now?

38:40

And I want you to just go on a playful experiment with me, try it for 30 days.

38:46

where you really acknowledge and recognize yourself in the process.

38:51

It might be a game changer.

38:53

Oh, it will be.

38:54

It will be because the times that I have done this, the times I have had clients tell me, I think of things all the time now to celebrate because I know that that's what you are wanting me to do, right?

39:08

So it does rewire your brain in that way.

39:12

Yeah.

39:12

Oh, this has just been such an important, valuable conversation.

39:16

What have we-- is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to make sure that you get in here?

39:24

You know I think-- I feel like we could talk about like hours and hours on this topic and kind of go off on like tangents and offshoots.

39:31

I think that a lot of times women, again, they think that their hormones are out of whack.

39:36

35 and up, you're feeling like a slew of stress and fatigue and overwhelm, and you're struggling with weight loss or libido or you know your energy.

39:44

And yes, in certain scenarios, it might be hormones.

39:48

But more often than not, it is unchecked stress.

39:52

It is high levels of cortisol that is just running awry.

39:57

And it's running awry not because of what your boss said or the time you have or what your partner said or did, but it's how we are engaging with these sticky moments, how we are engaging with the challenges and obstacles of our life.

40:09

And that's where I think we have so much more control than we realize.

40:13

Cortisol on its own, I think of as like a little superhero.

40:16

It's designed to help us survive.

40:17

Little amounts of cortisol is so good for survival, butI feel like with a lot of overachieving women, we're just letting it run amok, and eventually it plays a role physically, physiologically with our body.

40:31

I heard that when you said that so many of us, and I do this often, we overwork to try to get out of the overwhelm.

40:39

Yeah.

40:40

And we double down on more effort, doing more, giving more, staying later.

40:45

And I I don't thinkI know that I never had anyone explain to me like, hey, there is this little superhero in your body, cortisol, that when you get used to too much of that cortisol or when cortisol becomes the driving factor, everything feels panicky and frenzied and pressure-y and so stressful.

41:12

What else do you thinkJust maybe from a medical standpoint, what is important for us to know about cortisol?

41:19

And then engaging in those sticky moments from a mindset perspective, what would you want people to know?

41:27

Yeah, I think, so this is a complex topic, but just to simplify cortisol, cortisol drives up urges and cravings.

41:35

So like at a just a super fundamental level, sometimes we think, oh, I just love food.

41:41

That was me.

41:42

Someone said, I just love food so much and I still consider myself a foodie.

41:46

But the reason that I have these really strong, what feels like compelling urges is because I had high levels of cortisol and my brain was trying to get me a break.

41:57

So that's the very first reason.

41:59

And to me, that's a compelling enough reason for why do we wanna do this work?

42:03

of navigating stress, navigating our emotions, understanding how to to really take care of ourselves in those moments is just this.

42:10

Cortisol drives errors and cravings.

42:12

Cortisol also contributes to belly fat.

42:15

There's actual physiology for how like high levels of cortisol, our brain is thinking, if you just imagine kind of evolutionarily, if we have high levels of stress of cortisol, our brain is assuming there's a threat, there's a lion outside the cave, or we are in deep danger,and we better store resources as a safety and survival mechanism.

42:35

It's why we store fat, especially belly fat around our visceral organs because we have high levels of cortisol.

42:43

And the third thing that I think is interesting with cortisol is it also leads to insulin resistance.

42:48

So it's just interesting, right?

42:49

So when we have high stress, because again, right, our brain thinks there's a line outside the cave, it's going to release glucose into our bloodstream to make us fight or flight.

42:58

And eventually that leads to insulin resistance.

43:00

So it's like, if you can see the cycle on its own in small amounts, stress is not a problem.

43:04

It gets you outta bed, gets you places on time, but when it goes running amok, it's having a lot of these downstream effects that can be really harmful, not just physically like belly fat and changing insulin resistance and physical ramifications, but how we are feeling in our life, in the prime time of our life, we're feeling overwhelmed and stressed all the time, and I don't think any of us woke up you know I don't think any of us at the age of six or seven thought, I want to be an adult who feels stressed and overwhelmed all the time.

43:35

So the only way out, my friends, is we have to take ownership of it.

43:39

We have to take charge of it.

43:40

It's possible.

43:41

It's totally possible to do.

43:44

If someone is wanting a few pointers to take charge, where would you have them start?

43:52

So I would say that I would think that there's a structural piece and a mindset piece, the structural piece, and this is one of the things that I think is so important that we come out with when we're evaluating from a playful scientist lens, is actually making realistic science-informed decisions around your life.

44:12

So if you have a weight loss goal, having science-informed strategy to become a fat burner.

44:17

Making you sure you have the right nutrition, that you're eating enough, that you're eating appropriately to to actually fuel your hormone pathways and your fat burning pathways.

44:26

Science is actual strategy.

44:28

Actually building in structurally into your day and your week, guilt-free rest and play and movement.

44:35

So when we make those decisions, now we have a plan, the plan that we all love, we all love a plan.

44:40

We need to have that plan.

44:42

It has to be informed by realistic structure and strategy.

44:45

And then the second piece is there's going to be a moment.

44:48

So we have to accept that moment that it comes to putting the plan into action, you know it'll feel uncomfortable.

44:55

If we're used to procrastinating, or if we're used to negotiating, or we're used to giving ourselves exit strategies, following through on a plan might feel a little uncomfortable.

45:05

And this is where you can go through A, B, C, D, E, right?

45:08

Being aware.

45:09

Catching it, nothing is going wrong.

45:10

Your brain is being very brilliant.

45:12

To avoid putting forth the effort, take a breath, calm your nervous system, feel courage, and do it anyway.

45:21

And then celebrate or acknowledge yourself for the effort.

45:25

As a woman who has a plan for what I'm supposed to do today, this feels really, really good.

45:32

And I'm just so grateful for the really thoughtful way you've broken this down.

45:38

If people listening want to know where they can find you and learn more about the science, the mindset, and how you help your clients lose weight and actually keep it off as you have done, where should they go?

45:50

Yes.

45:50

So I am Burn Stress Lose Weight Everywhere on the Internet.

45:54

That's my podcast.

45:55

I'm on Instagram and I love chatting on Instagram, so you can send me a DM and let me know what you thought about this episode and what you're taking away.

46:02

If you have a question, send me a DM, we'll chat on Instagram and definitely the podcast.

46:07

I think that that's where I deliver a lot of real stories and I do not hold back or filter anything.

46:14

I think of myself as a very open book, so I share real life fails and real stories, and again, how I playfully evaluate them and science and strategy.

46:22

That is my number one mission for women to have science-informed strategy.

46:27

I don't want you having gimmicks and fads where you lose water weight and muscle mass.

46:32

I've seen plenty of just, you know do this detox and do that cleanse and just do no flour, no sugar, and maybe you're gonna lose the weight.

46:40

I want you to have science-informed strategy.

46:41

So we do that on the podcast.

46:44

Well, I could not recommend it more.

46:46

And Priyanka, thank you so much for being here today.

46:49

It's been amazing.

46:50

Thanks for having me.