Episode 94 - We Are Thinking About Time All Wrong with Vikki Yaffe

When we don’t get to cross something off of our to-do list, we often blame ourselves for poor time management. However, the founder and creator of the Time Hacker Method, Vikki Yaffe, joins me today to offer the perspective that the problem is not us, but the mindset about time we’ve been taught to have. Vikki teaches people the skills to collaborate with time more flexibly, and I’m so grateful to have her on the podcast to share tips and tools to stop feeling shame around time and trust ourselves instead. Here’s what we cover:

• How good girl rules overlap with myths about time management
• The downfalls of the systems, norms, and tools that we have been taught that are supposed to help us with our time
• How the false truths we were taught about time stem from exploitation 
• When we try to manipulate time by overscheduling ourselves, it prevents collaboration with time and a relationship with ourselves
• An example of what it looks like when someone is caught up in the misunderstanding of time
• Why your brain is the most effective tool to make lasting change with your time

I can't wait for you to listen.

Find Vikki here:
https://www.timehackers.xyz/
https://www.timehackers.xyz/guide
https://www.instagram.com/vikkiyaffe/

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

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Transcript

You are listening to the Ex-Good Girl Podcast, episode 94.

00:05

Over the next three weeks, I am releasing three really powerful episodes with three friends and fellow coaches about time, planning, and goal setting, which are just, they're so good.

00:20

I can't wait for you to hear them.

00:22

And usually around January, I start to feel almost a sense of dread, like, oh gosh, it's time to set goals.

00:31

New Year's resolutions.

00:32

I actually love the idea of goal setting.

00:35

I love this season of, you know, winter time reflection.

00:40

I love looking at a new year and planning what I want to be different.

00:44

I want to grow.

00:46

I want to experience better ways of relating to myself and to others.

00:50

And I think you're here listening for those same things.

00:53

So these next three episodes are going to just be so good for you.

00:57

They're going to blow your mind.

00:58

They blew mine.

00:59

And really what it gave me is a set of tools to go into January with where I don't get caught in the same trap of thinking that is so tied to the good girl rules that really makes goal setting and planning and time management end up not working for me.

01:18

So enjoy them.

01:19

I would love to hear if you have you know some thoughts you want to share.

01:24

The DMs that I get about my podcast episodes are some of my favorites to read.

01:28

So let me know what you think.

01:30

Vikki, I've been trying to nail you down for several months.

01:35

You are not only a busy woman and coach and someone for whom I have a lot of admiration, but you just took a five-week vacation.

01:43

It's amazing.

01:45

Yes, it was amazing.

01:47

And it's a cool place in my life to see that dream fulfilled for sure.

01:51

Well, I want to talk in just a minute about why that is so amazing, given who you are and what you coach on.

01:56

But first, introduce yourself.

01:58

What would you want people who are listening to know about you?

02:01

So my name is Vikki Yaffe.

02:02

I am the founder and CEO of Time Hackers.

02:05

I'm all about unlearning everything that doesn't work around time.

02:09

I think it's like the diet industry.

02:10

There's like 1000 plans and if any of them really worked, we would all just wake up at 5:00 AM.

02:15

That's not how it goes.

02:17

And instead, you know, I teach people the skills to be able to collaborate with time in a more flexible way.

02:24

Life is not fixed.

02:25

We are not the same on a Thursday at 3:00 PM as we are on Monday at 2:00 PM or whatever it might be.

02:30

I think we need to release the rigidity that has us shaming ourselves for not being able to follow something perfectly and instead learn to trust ourselves.

02:38

And that be the foundation from which we make decisions, from which we choose how we spend our time.

02:43

Uh There's so much in that.

02:46

And so that is why, to me, I saw your post on social media about a five-week vacation.

02:53

And for so many of us who think we don't have enough time, that seems impossible.

02:59

So the main question I had for you is, what do we get wrong about time?

03:05

And what can we do to start to collaborate?

03:08

I love how you say that, collaborate with time.

03:11

And I feel like I should just let you take it from there.

03:15

Yeah.

03:15

Start the sermon.

03:17

Yeah.

03:18

I think, I think it's not necessarily what we get wrong about time, what we've been taught wrong about time.

03:24

I just want everyone who's listening to this who is unable to finish their To Do List or didn't follow the plan perfectly or said they were going to do something and didn't do it or keep being late for something or having to reschedule something, whatever it might be.

03:36

I want you to know if you are that person, you relate to any of those things.

03:40

It's not you.

03:41

There's nothing wrong with you.

03:42

There's something wrong with the systems, the norms, and the tools that we have been taught that are supposed to help us with our time.

03:49

If you are female, if you are neurodiverse, if you have chronic illness, if you are a creative, if you like, the list goes on, if you're a parent, then you are someone who was not considered in the rules of time management as they were being developed, which by the way, they stemmed a lot from the Industrial Revolution, from plantations, like they didn't stem from things that were like, let's help people achieve their goals.

04:12

It stemmed from exploitation.

04:14

So if there's one thing that I always say to everyone, it's like, there's nothing wrong with you.

04:20

The systems that you've been taught are not optimized for you.

04:25

So if you are struggling, which literally everyone is, it's because of these systems, it's because of the norms, and it's because of these tools.

04:34

What we were taught about time stems from exploitation.

04:41

I have never heard anyone say that before.

04:44

And I'm amazed because it's like once you see it, it's okay.

04:49

So it's the same as like the good girl rules come from patriarchy and come from a specific goal of keeping women in the constant hamster wheel of, am I pretty enough?

05:02

Am I doing enough?

05:03

Do I look good enough?

05:04

What do people think of me?

05:06

So that they never get to living the actual meat of a sovereign life.

05:12

I feel like that's what you just said about time.

05:15

Yes, it's the same.

05:16

Am I fast enough?

05:17

Am I ahead enough?

05:18

Have I done everything I need to do to earn the reward of doing what I want to do?

05:23

Am I taking care of everything?

05:24

Am I doing it well enough?

05:25

We live in a world where there's always more to do, and technology has made it so that we can do it all at once with 75 tabs open.

05:34

If we're not, we don't have a minute to think about what do I want?

05:38

Do I want to still be doing this thing?

05:40

And not just what do I want, but is this worthwhile?

05:43

Is this creating the result that I wanted to create?

05:46

Or am I just doing it because everyone else is doing this?

05:48

And a big way I see this, I don't know if a lot of your listeners are employed or self-employed or whatever it might be, but I'll just give an example that comes to my head, which is a lot of business owners, like say coaches like us, start a business that I must go on social media, I must have an Instagram account.

06:05

I hate Instagram.

06:06

I never use it myself.

06:07

And I'm like, how many hours are you going to give to this tool that you don't even like when there's literally 50 other marketing channels?

06:14

Just because some guru that you never met said that this is how you grow a business.

06:19

Just like another guru that you've never met that said if you wake up at 5:00 AM you'll succeed.

06:25

And if you're not succeeding, it's because you're not waking up at 5:00 AM.

06:27

So it's the same thing.

06:28

It's like, like I think about it's like outsourcing your inner knowing to an external that doesn't know you.

06:35

So it's never going to work.

06:36

So you're always going to fail.

06:38

And then we make ourselves wrong, because the expert said.

06:42

I want you to just say that over and over and over again, because I think we think about time as this static kind of soullessAnd it it just is.

06:55

We all have 24 hours in a day, but what we don't think about is the indoctrination.

07:02

And what you just ran through is such a brilliant kind of summary of the things that we are taught that just keep us feeling like there's something wrong with us in this system.

07:14

But it's because we forget that what we're taught about time is the problem, not the 24 hours.

07:22

Yeah.

07:22

YeahThe 24 hours is like neutral.

07:24

It is there, it is what it is.

07:26

I always say time is like this fixed known variable, and that comes with advantages and it comes with challenges, but it doesn't matter, it still is.

07:35

So if we're trying to change, like we're trying to manipulate time in any way and like, you know, schedule my seven minute, my seven minute calendar blocks or whatever it might be trying to, it's like, it removes any relationship to time, it moves any collaboration and it moves.

07:50

It removes relationship to self and self-knowledge to be like the amount of you know professional women that I speak to when we're going to do workshops that like, I don't go to the bathroom in the day.

08:00

Like I don't have time.

08:01

So I just don't drink enough water or I dance.

08:03

You know, I'm speaking about senior women of, you know, trillion dollar companies sometimes like doing this because like, well, my calls are back-to-back every hour, 'cause that's how it's been done.

08:15

Everyone thinks about having an hour-long meeting.

08:18

And we've never thought to question that.

08:19

It's like, do you need our long meetings?

08:21

I don't know.

08:23

Probably not.

08:24

Probably not.

08:26

So what are some of the specific, like insidious things that we are taught about time?

08:32

I'd really love just like your top five, ten, whatever you think is most important.

08:36

I think one of the big things that we're taught is that, you know, the same time is money.

08:42

You know, time heals all wounds.

08:44

And we are giving time with like over responsibility for our emotions, for our experiences, for our results.

08:52

Therefore, if things take time, then there's nothing we can do.

08:57

We just have to wait.

08:58

So we are taking away our own power.

09:01

Again, strategically, who wants us to feel powerless?

09:05

Not us, we wouldn't choose that.

09:07

But it's become the norm to say like, you aren't capable of driving change, you aren't capable of producing results, time is.

09:14

right?

09:14

So that's part of the problem.

09:16

And I even joked with some of my clients, like even having a baby doesn't take time.

09:23

My baby came out prematurely.

09:25

So it's like, it's not even like, oh, it takes nine months.

09:27

Like you cannot even say that, right?

09:29

It's like there's certain things that need to happen and then the baby's coming, but it's not the passing of time.

09:34

I always say time passes, but time is passive.

09:38

And how do we show up differently when we take responsibility, when we feel powerful to affect change?

09:46

Yeah, I had no idea until you named those.

09:48

Like we say that about like it takes time.

09:51

Yeah.

09:51

Or all these ways that we just kind of subconsciously think about the way time is used, time is money, time heals all moves.

10:00

That's so, that's so interesting.

10:02

How do you know when someone is caught up in that misunderstanding of time?

10:09

What does their life look like, I guess, is my question.

10:12

Yeah, I was going to say typically they're coming to me.

10:14

Yeah, yeahTheir life looks super jam packed and busy, but they're not satisfied.

10:20

They are running on autopilot often.

10:23

It's not like there's not a presence in their life.

10:26

They think that there's not enough time and that they're stuck in this loop.

10:29

And if we think about this time of year,in particular, making those small compromises of sacrificing sleep and working when they said that they wouldn't and being on the phone around the kids when they saw that they wouldn't and being available for everything.

10:43

They are delaying things that they really want to do because they don't have time.

10:47

That might be a career change.

10:48

It might be a five-week vacation.

10:50

Whatever it is, it's saying like, well, if I don't have time, excess time right now, I cannot create any kind of change.

10:57

Or they're you know burning out, overdoing, over busy.

11:02

Thinking that the way to create time tomorrow is to do it all today, when really you're just creating a habit over business.

11:10

I can see if we have like Venn diagrams of like, you know, all of the time rules that you're talking about and all of the good girl rules.

11:19

Like being stuck in the middle of that Venn diagram where not only do you have to do it all and do it well, but you have to be thought of as a person who is good and efficient and and you know productive.

11:36

I can see how that these, you and I are just kind of talking about different layers of the same kind of trap that just keeps you going to bed feeling like you didn't get enough done, like you aren't good enough, and getting up and trying again the next day, over and over and over again.

11:54

Yeah, and like think about this for anyone listening.

11:56

I want you to think about, even if you ever completed your week and were like, oh, I got everything done that I wanted to, it lasts a second, 'cause there's always more to do, right?

12:06

There's always more to do.

12:07

There's always more time you could give.

12:09

There's always things like the whole way our society is built and our lives are built is for there to never be enough of this thing that we think we need to create the lives that we want.

12:19

And therefore we're never going to create the lives that we want because we don't have enough of the resource that we're telling ourselves that we need.

12:26

Instead of like, what if I have enough time right now?

12:28

What if I can get started with one minute today?

12:30

What's one thing that I can do?

12:31

It's like, that's not enough.

12:32

It's not enough.

12:33

The amount of people that will say to me, I had five things that I wanted to do today.

12:36

I only got two of them done.

12:37

What a fail.

12:38

I'm like, okay, so we're either going to fail every single day, or we need to change our measurement.

12:45

And all of this thinking that keeps us stuck is supported, like you mentioned, you know, compared to diet culture.

12:53

It's supported by a got to be multimillion dollar industry of planners and calendars and hundreds of billions.

13:00

The time industry is worth hundreds of billions, and it's growing and growing because we're getting busier and technology has allowed us to do more longer, and we can see and compare ourselves to other people more.

13:10

And there's tracking, and there's analyzing, and there's evaluating, and there's all of this you know that we're supposed to use to help us, but we use it to beat ourselves up.

13:19

So then we're less productive and more distracted, and we're minimizing ourselves and our potential and our power so that, of course, things take longer.

13:27

And of course, the most important things don't happen, and of course, we don't pursue our dreams.

13:32

I can really see how what you are doing is like a revolution around our idea of time.

13:41

And that just, I really resonate with that because I feel like what I am doing with helping people understand and get out of their people pleasing is also kind of this revolutionary thing that it changes everything.

13:53

It changes everything about who you are and what you have access to.

13:56

And it's all around the same thing, personal power and connection, connection to self.

14:02

And I love that you said that this way of thinking about time that is so industrial removes the relationship to yourself.

14:10

I want you to talk about that relationship to self and kind of specifically in this, how can we begin to think about time differently?

14:19

Is it first that relationship to self or does something else kind of precede that?

14:25

You can do either way, right?

14:27

Starting is starting.

14:28

So I just really encourage anyone.

14:29

I'm going to share two things and pick whatever feels accessible for you.

14:32

But the first is when we think about our relationship to time, I always say to people, if time was a person, how would you describe your relationship to them?

14:41

Are you always complaining about them?

14:42

Are you telling them that they're not enough?

14:44

Is nothing they do good enough?

14:47

Really think about that.

14:48

What's your relationship if time was a person?

14:51

The second thing to think about is to yourself, right?

14:55

What would be different if you, you know, the way I define hustle is like trying to do things and and achieve things in order to change our thoughts about ourselves.

15:04

Doesn't work, exhausts us, burnout.

15:06

What would be different if you, and I'm saying this to every single listener, now this is going to feel radical, but if you just were enough exactly as you are, if you were amazing exactly as you are, if you put your hand on your heart right now, skin to skin and said, I love you, we don't need to do anything else today or this week or in life for me to be kind to you, for me to want to take care of you, for me to make good choices for you.

15:30

Like me and you, we're in this together.

15:32

So we're not going to make good choices for someone we don't care about or respect.

15:40

And we're also not going to listen to someone's choices if we don't respect them.

15:44

And the example that I always give here is to think back to high school, to teachers.

15:48

I had two maths teachers.

15:50

I love maths, so I know.

15:52

But I had two maths teachers, and one of them really believed in me and was really supportive.

15:58

And, you know, whatever work she gave in, I wanted to deliver.

16:01

And the other one was trying you know to tell me that I shouldn't be doing maths at that level, whatever it was.

16:07

And so whose work, whose priorities am I going to meet first?

16:12

And we do that to ourselves.

16:13

We don't meet our own priorities because we've built such a divide where we don't even like and respect ourselves.

16:19

And it doesn't matter how nice your planner is or how color-coded your calendar is.

16:24

If you do not like the decider,then you are not going to do the thing.

16:28

And if you do not like the doer, you're not going to make good decisions.

16:31

So the decider and the doer need to heal their relationship as well.

16:36

That's really beautiful to think about.

16:39

And I think you and I, I love this conversation because it feels like we're just we're talking just about two avenues to the same thing umm and and the ability to connect with and love and feel valued no matter who thinks what of you, no matter you know what rules you are are breaking or what relationship you are leaving is so very similar to that.

17:06

So I just want to answer this question because I think it's such a good one.

17:10

If time was a person, what is your relationship?

17:12

And I want to tell on myself a little.

17:14

I feel like time is this, on the one hand, like harried, like always like, come on, Sara, come on.

17:20

Like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. Faster, faster, faster, faster.

17:24

And then when I want to do something for myself, I'm making little air quotes here because I don't, you know, it just feels like I don't even know that I'm really honest about wanting to do something for myself.

17:39

It feels more like I haven't earned it yet.

17:41

And so I keep like pushing it away.

17:43

And when it finally comes for some time for me, like time is gone.

17:47

Time vanishes.

17:48

Yeah.

17:49

And so it's a taskmaster and then like a ghost.

17:53

You're not there for time.

17:54

You're delaying it, you're shutting it off, and then time's not there for you.

17:57

Yes.

17:58

Yes I would never have thought about it that way.

18:03

I think that's such a fantastic question.

18:06

And so when you talk about the decider and the doer needing to heal, can you say a little bit more about that?

18:14

That's fascinating to me.

18:16

This ties into a lot of you know people that tell you to plan your entire week in advance and and get everything down, write everything down, put it into your calendar.

18:24

That version of you is making decisions, right?

18:27

And then making decisions in that version of you that Tuesday opens up your calendar, that's the doer.

18:31

But if we're making decisions from a place of there's not enough time or I need to get all of this done so I can prove that I'm good enough or so that I can give something to myself or so that I can believe that I'm successful or whatever it might be, we're gonna make unsustainable decisions.

18:45

We're gonna make decisions like, you know, I remember even when I was first coaching before I was even centered around time, someone said to me, like, I'm annoyed I didn't get the 24 things that I wanted to do done yesterday.

18:56

And I was like, you thought you were gonna get 24 things done yesterday?

19:01

But like the decider in her was like, yes, I know what will make, you know, will be successful.

19:08

I'll feel amazing after I've done all these things.

19:10

So if I'm going to only feel amazing after I've done them all, obviously I want to do them all as soon as possible.

19:15

Let's ignore the fact that this is not possible, and let's make this decision.

19:20

Now, that's the decider, making unsustainable choices.

19:24

Then the doer shows up to it and is immediately overwhelmed switches off, feels uncared for, feels even maybe a little bit bullied, and is like, I cannot do this.

19:35

How did you think I could do this?

19:36

This is unfair.

19:37

This is not okay.

19:39

And then you've got this you know relationship where the decider's like, you never do what I tell you to do.

19:43

And the doer's like, you never tell me to do anything that I can actually do.

19:47

And they're moving further and further away from each other.

19:50

So before you know it, the decider's saying, 5:00 AM.

19:53

And the doer's saying, snooze, snooze, snooze, or fall asleep again at two or whatever it might be.

19:59

So we've lost all self-trust and we've eroded, 'cause that's what it is.

20:03

Those are our two selves, the decider and the doer, opposed to us.

20:07

And we've damaged that relationship whereby you know good luck trying to do anything on your calendar.

20:13

Like it's not going to happen.

20:17

Oh the antagonism that you describe between those two parts is that's such a great description.

20:24

And one of the you know lenses that I look through in the work that I do is parts work and there is a decider and there is a doer and when there is an antagonistic relationshipThat's the tension that you live in all of the time.

20:40

And that like tug of war between the two is part of why we're so exhausted.

20:46

And it's just another layer on top of the overwhelm and the indecision because the decider wants you to do these 10 things but the doer knows it's not possible.

20:55

So the doer is trying to-- like what can I get done that will at least get me some of this good feeling?

21:02

That is so fascinating.

21:06

And I think what ends up happening is the decider ends up doing and the doer ends up deciding.

21:10

And that's why she's so exhausted.

21:12

The decider is like the doer is not doing anything.

21:14

So I'm just going to like go go go.

21:17

And the doer is like I'm going to change these decisions.

21:21

So they're both doing things that aren't in their skill set and it's just exhausting.

21:26

Yeah and it's a constant I feel this like I feel the feeling of it in my body right now this constant negotiation.

21:34

Like if I do this then I'll get to feel this way.

21:38

Or like doing a little bit of 10 things and not actually finishing anything because you're like at least if I just get a little bit of the 10 things done then I might be able to feel kind of good.

21:51

But you never do because there's the constant feeling of frustration and being pitted against myself which you have described I think in such a brilliant way.

22:03

Yeah.

22:04

Absolutely.

22:04

I was gonna say and that's why I teach in terms of time hacking decenters time and recenters self.

22:11

So you know I don't know how much you know about it.

22:14

I don't wanna go too much into it here but it's really like I teach the brain as your number one time tool better than any app any calendar any colored pens or pencils any to-do lists any email reminders any alarm clock because your brain is is gonna determine what you do and don't do it.

22:32

And we're neglecting it when we're saying I'm going to buy another planner.

22:35

We're neglecting it when we say I'm going to download this app.

22:37

It's going to change everything.

22:38

We're neglecting it when we say I'm just going to set this alarm.

22:40

And when it goes off I'll magically do it.

22:42

It's like no your brain has to be on board.

22:44

And when we don't investigate our brain on board initially it doesn't matter how pretty the plan looks.

22:50

So how do you get your brain on board?

22:54

Coaching.

22:55

But seriously it's asking you, it's like partnering with your brain and asking it questions and creating opportunity for conversation.

23:03

And oftentimes you know some of the tools I teach in my community it's like 5 minutes answering these questions is going to shape your whole week so differently than if you just run 100 miles an hour because you don't have enough time.

23:15

You're so busy you've got 100,000 things you need to do.

23:18

Like it's missing that you're going to run 100 miles an hour maybe in the wrong direction or on a route that you didn't even need to go down.

23:25

But we're so busy rushing to try and catch up to these made up imaginary deadlines often and not always but often that we can't even like see what's happening and see what we're doing.

23:37

And this is why I think a lot of people quit on their dreams because they've created unsustainable patterns that no no one required of them just to like fit into the norms that we've created around time.

23:51

Those habits and patterns just come from this kind of unthought about unexamined way of thinking about time in general.

24:01

Okay so let me give you just like a fictitious made up example from no one in particular.

24:06

It's like I'm asking for a friend right?

24:07

Not me.

24:09

If I… start my week with a list of things and it's mostly just the list that I've had for the past eight weeks of things that I didn't get done.

24:19

Like what?

24:20

What are some of the things that you would want me to understand where I could might think differently?

24:26

Yeah.

24:26

So firstly I genuinely think as a rule if you've put something off more than twice delete it.

24:32

It doesn't need to be done.

24:33

If it was that important you wouldn't put it off.

24:34

So if we end up with a list of things that we've had for eight weeks now your brain might say ah no I can't delete this.

24:40

I can't delete this.

24:41

There's something I teach called sitting in consequence.

24:43

But you have to be willing to let your brain to fail.

24:47

You have to be willing to fail.

24:48

You have to be willing to miss a deadline.

24:50

You have to be willing for something to go wrong to teach your brain that we're not operating like this anymore.

24:57

We're going to do this thing or we're not going to do it.

25:00

So often we're so unwilling to fail and to not do the things that we've been putting off that obviously aren't that important.

25:08

And I mean this like oh you have to send your kid in on non uniform day in uniform.

25:13

Like if you live through that once you will not live through it again.

25:16

Like it's going to be done.

25:18

You have to be willing to teach your brain that you're not going to pick up the slack. It’s  not going to get to run around and waste your time all day to then have you at 9:00 PM doing the thing.

25:26

You are not going to do the thing.

25:28

Like if I said I'm going to do it today and just for anyone listening if that sounds a bit too harsh then say this this list I've got today and by today 5:00 PM what isn't done isn't getting done and you'll be amazed at how much your brain gets on board.

25:42

And by the way we still don't want you to achieve everything because we want to teach your brain that it can't operate like this with these delaying of important things.

25:50

And the problem is we're either saying something is important when it's not or we're doing unimportant things because we don't like the important thing which might be because it exposes us to potential rejection or failure or someone not liking us like a difficult conversation or whatever it might be.

26:09

We have to teach our brain that the worst case scenario is that we don't do anything.

26:15

I wonder as I'm just thinking through that not fictional to-do list so many of the things I think are more aspirational than actually important.

26:29

They're things I think I should be doing.

26:31

They are things I think I need to be doing to be successful to be you know whatever as a business owner as as a coach how often do you find people who get caught in that just like aspirational living to-do list making?

26:49

Yeah I mean just as a rule whenever you say I should do something you're not going to do it.

26:54

So anything that comes with a should is a delete.

26:57

Just delete it.

26:58

I think also you know the way that we've been taught around time again like the tools that we have. One of the big lies that we have is that if you want to do something.

27:06

You have to write it down.

27:08

You have to aspire to it.

27:10

And I always say to people you don't write on your to-do list to have a shower but you're able to do that every day.

27:15

And for sure you will have multiple experiences in your life where you've created something without having it written down.

27:20

If writing something down inspires you and connects you to it and it works do it.

27:27

And if it doesn't then don't.

27:29

That's what I'm saying about is that tool really a tool for for you?

27:35

Is it?

27:35

Or is it a general tool out there in the universe that we're told is going to magically work for everyone?

27:39

And again there's an individual level but then it's the individual on a daily level.

27:44

And what works for us at certain points in our cycle might not work at other points in our cycle.

27:49

And what works for us on January 5th might not work for us on December 5th.

27:53

So just really again coming down to if it's not working you're not the problem the tool is.

27:59

What other tool do you want to try to get this done?

28:04

As a woman who is in perimenopause and who is experiencing the you know the decline and kind of the rearrangement of hormones and and their abilities in my body and having been diagnosed with ADHD about 18 months ago it's such a it's actually going to make me a little emotional to talk about how the failure that I have felt makes it feel like I am the problem.

28:34

You know I'm not able to remember things.

28:36

I'm not able to -- and and it feels in particular like my perception of time has been so affected by this.

28:45

And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

28:49

Yeah so like just think about what would be different if you just allow that experience instead of making it wrong because it's not in the walls of what society tells you success should be or how you have to behave in order to have success.

29:02

And I really appreciate you sharing that with me and also with your listeners because that's the whole point.

29:08

That's the very first thing we spoke about on this podcast.

29:11

Like we overemphasise and overgive to the tools the methods to the right way and undergive to ourselves.

29:17

And I just wonder what would be different if you flipped that and overgave to yourself and let go of what things should look like.

29:25

I mean yeah the first thing that comes up is that's selfish right?

29:29

The good girl you know programming there is I can see that.

29:34

But yet what you've done is you've made me curious about like what would that overgiving look like?

29:41

I mean because when you said you know one sure way to know that you are in this habituated way of thinking about time is super jam packed but not satisfied.

29:51

I don't think there is a sentence you have said that better describes kind of how I feel about you know where I am right now.

29:58

Like I'm so busy and I have lots of moments of satisfaction but a general sense of like not enough not enough not enough.

30:07

And how I might change that.

30:11

by doing some overgiving which I'm just going to say right now if you're listening to this podcast if you think you're overgiving you're not overgiving right?

30:20

The bar for self care is so low among women who are, you know, stuck in these systems of patriarchy and capitalism and you know industrial revolutionism that we still aren't out from under.

30:36

If you think you're overgiving you're not.

30:38

How do you overgive to yourself?

30:40

I would love to hear.

30:42

Well I take a five-week vacation.

30:45

I have a 15-hour work week.

30:47

I cancel meetings even if it's the third time I'm canceling it or rearrange it or whatever.

30:53

When I'm at certain points in my cycle I'll just cancel my whole next day.

30:57

If I am feeling sick at all I'll cancel my next few days even if I recover early.

31:02

I'm not like ohh let me just cancel my next meeting and see how I get on.

31:06

I want to have too much, it's not too little.

31:10

A lot of those are time related intentionally but I really want you all to think about.

31:14

It's very hard to think about applying for ourselves.

31:16

I had the same struggle as well.

31:18

So for anyone listening I do this work because I was the opposite.

31:21

I was working all the time.

31:22

I was giving everything to everyone else.

31:23

I had three social plans in an evening with an 80 hour week work job and multiple burnouts, daily panic attacks, all the fun stuff.

31:30

Just let it be simple.

31:31

Don't let anyone shame you out of whatever way you choose to give to yourself even if it's like Netflix.

31:36

I really like I was big into that a while ago.

31:39

Like don't watch Netflix.

31:40

I stopped watching series for like two years and now I love them again.

31:45

I'm like oh this is great.

31:46

This is productive.

31:48

But really just allowing yourself listen I'm all for you know I've got a little kid.

31:52

I love being outside in nature.

31:54

I love traveling and new experiences and that's amazing.

31:59

But most importantly what I notice is we've created like good and bad like morally good and morally bad things to do with our time.

32:06

So when we're exhausted and all we want to do is scroll social media ohh another thing to feel bad about another thing we shouldn't be doing so that we don't even get the rest from that.

32:17

I'm sure we'll link to this in the show notes.

32:18

I have a guide about the four biggest time wasters and how to overcome them.

32:22

But really I would say if you could give yourself one thing when the judgment comes up less than an act when the judgment comes up meet it with compassion.

32:33

Oh I love you.

32:34

Someone told you to be this way.

32:36

Let me show you another way.

32:37

This is what I was going to say before.

32:39

It's very hard for us to do something for ourselves.

32:41

And I found I think you know this part of my story when I was pregnant and put on bed rest.

32:46

And that was like when I was doing my big launch and were financially dependent on my business.

32:50

And my husband was a student and it was like oh my God I've ruined everything.

32:55

And I had to get to that point of creating self safety and not working.

33:01

And one of the things that I asked myself that changed everything I use it all the time is what's the example that I want to be for the next generation?

33:08

What's the exact like if it's hard for me to take care of myself knowing all of this what if me doing it and speaking about it which I did and continue to a lot makes it easier for the next person.

33:19

And I see that example all the time even with my you know my 15 hour work week mastermind but the amount of messages I got from people that had never even considered working a little bit less.

33:29

So just by me speaking about the idea freed up thousands of hours in people's lives not because they came in the mastermind and they did it that way but because they asked a question that they're not thought to ask before which is What if I could work less?

33:43

Well as someone who has followed you for a long time and been inspired by not just your success as a business person which I know firsthand is true but just your example of how you use your time I've been fascinated by you for a long time.

34:01

And interestingly enough keep telling myself I don't have time to work with you.

34:07

This has just been an amazing conversation for me personally and also professionally.

34:12

And I know that there's so much here that is gonna be of such value for people listening.

34:17

Is there anything that you wanted to say that you didn't get a chance to say thus far?

34:23

No, not really.

34:24

I really think just everyone think about one takeaway from this episode.

34:29

You can obviously come back and listen to it again.

34:30

You might take different things but if there's a lot of new ideas here for you listening don't tell yourself you need to understand and make a million changes all at once.

34:38

Just think about what's one small thing based off of what we've spoken about today that I would like to think about differently or implement.

34:47

Well I so appreciate your time and being here to speak to what I really see now as like a revolution.

34:53

I'm grateful for that.

34:54

Thanks Vikki.

34:55

Thank you so much.

34:56

And thanks to everyone listening.