Episode 98 - Resentment: It's Not Coming From Them with Sara Wilhelm

Have you ever felt resentment building, only to realize your own choices have led you to that place? A huge source of resentment is mistakenly blaming others for decisions that we are responsible for, but recognizing your power to control this can be transformative. In this episode, my guest, Sara Wilhelm, shares her recent breakthrough in understanding her resentment, and how she has made a plan to move forward in the direction of living more according to her values. Here’s what we cover:

• The steps to take you from feeling resentful to taking action
• How people pleasing disconnects us from our true feelings and desires
• A method to help deal with the discomfort you feel when you stop people pleasing
• How women are programmed to believe that our time is not actually our own
• Why finding a way to take action helps stop resentment towards other people or larger systems
• The importance of self-compassion as you work through your resentment 

I can't wait for you to listen!

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Transcript

You are listening to The Ex-Good Girl Podcast episode 98. I don't know what you like to do on Saturday, but I like to sit around and talk about resentment. Right, Sara? Right. Me too. I have Sara Wilhelm on the podcast today because she and I recently had a really fantastic conversation and we both spell our names correctly. 

 00:24
So it just seemed like the stars had aligned and the two Sara's are having a Saturday discussion about resentment that I really hope is beneficial for each of you because both of us have not been able to stop thinking about it since. 

 00:37
So Sara, start us off, introduce yourself. What do you want people to know about you? Great. First of all, I'm super happy to be here. My name is Sara Wilhelm. I live in Kansas. I am a pediatric physician assistant. 

 00:51
I've been there for 21 years. I am a wife of 26 years. I have two kids, a 20 year old and a 17 year old, lots of good family, good friends, and super glad to be here today. How did you end up on my calendar for a coaching session and consult? 

 01:13
So I originally discovered you because I was listening to another coach who talks about, she does physician health, like making sure that women physicians are getting their charts closed and doing things that just help them to be able to do their jobs, but also then be moms or do their own personal life afterwards. 

 01:33
She only sees physicians though, and I'm a physician assistant, but she has a great website. And so I was going through there and looking at who she has had on her podcast, your name appeared and it said, the ex people pleasing podcast, Sara, Sara Fisk. 

 01:50
And I was like, Oh, I've got to connect with this woman. I have to hear what she has to say. How, what was your connection to people pleasing? How did you know that that was an issue for you? I think I really started recognizing it over the last several years, the last few years, and I really tried to analyze how I got into that, what made me be a people pleaser. 

 02:15
I think some of it stemmed from, as just a young child, my dad's temper was fairly volatile, and I knew what I needed to do to make him happy, to not let his temper fly, to the point that I would even counsel my little brother and sister on how they needed to behave in order to not spark dad's attention. 

 02:41
I also got bullied when I was about a fifth or sixth grade, and I was definitely a goody-two-shoes. I was a teacher's pet. I felt like everyone should be following rules. I just was a classic first child, really. 

 02:59
I, when I started getting bullied, I just think I over time realized if I wasn't who I, who I really was, if I could be someone else, if I could portray that I'm easy going and I do what the crowd does that I was better liked. 

 03:15
Yeah. Those were some of the biggest things that caused these patterns in me. And those patterns worked, right? Like you did know how to calm your dad down. Yes. And it did, it worked. And you did know how to please teachers and other people whose care and attention and guidance you needed. 

 03:36
Absolutely. I also got a lot of positive attention from things that I did. Like I was in all the clubs, my sister and I sang duets together for four H competitions. I played instruments, I was in the play, I was in basketball, volleyball and track, and I was the president of the, you know, the class and the student body. 

 03:57
And like, I got praised for all of those things. And I felt like that felt really good to me to do that. Yeah. And to be fair, that does feel really good. And we need that, the type of belonging, the type of community, the safety that those behaviors provide is not to be underestimated or in my view, like denigrated in any way. 

 04:22
You did exactly what a child has to do. A young person has to do, a teenager has to do to be able to find a place of safety and belonging and nurturing and friendship that is essential for us, you know, to be able to grow. 

 04:39
Because I know that people listening to this are like, check, check, check, check. You know, I did so many of those same things, trying to just get to a place where everybody's happy with me. Everybody thinks I'm doing a good job. 

 04:53
And nobody's mad at me. Right. Oh, that's definitely that was the definite top of my… yeah. And then all that happens is as we age, those same habits start to turn on us because becoming an adult whose attention is always focused out on everybody else, always focused on achieving and giving and being the person that other people need, solving other people's problems, calming other people down, it begins to have different effects in our lives. 

 05:29
And so I think it's also interesting that you chose a helping profession. I do too. Right? What do you think kind of the connection is there? Well, I very specifically remember my mother always told me that I was so empathetic and so compassionate. 

 05:46
And I think I did kind of thrive as a young person, you know, even a high schooler helping my friends, being the person that they came to for advice. And so I think in some ways, it just sort of felt like natural that I should go into the helping fields. 

 06:02
Medicine in particular, really draws on altruism and service in some ways that are, you know, beautiful, and some ways that have a shadow side for a lot of physicians and physician’s assistants and people who work in the medical field. 

 06:22
I completely agree with that. And I think sometimes I do find myself wondering if what I do is because I love to help people, which I do think I do. But I also love when I'm appreciated. And when they tell me I'm, that's the reason that they come to our practice is to see me or like I thrive off of those things that I get back from that. 

 06:50
So I totally agree with that. It also just kind of sets up this, you know, the most common focus for a people pleaser is out out focused, right? It's the only focus. And so what you want, what you need, what you appreciate in me, what you think I'm good at, what you want me to do, what you expect from me becomes the way of life. 

 07:16
And as a child, that is 100% appropriate because of the high need for care and nurturing and safety. And you know, we need the adults, but as we age and as we come into ourselves, all of that out focus denies us self connection. 

 07:36
And so that of gets that tees us up for resentment. Because now all of that outward focused energy and action starts to not feel so good. So tell us specifically about what was starting to not feel good for you. 

 07:55
Yeah, so of course, there's always there's lots of little things that I can think of, but one of the biggest things that had happened to me over the last many years was at work, because I wanted to be this person that was so over the top helpful to my patients, especially I find myself with families who had little kids. 

 08:18
And these are families that I would know kind of outside of work. They might be people who are friends of my friends or people that I see through my children's classes or like, you know, we bump into these people in the community. 

 08:33
So they're not just strangers to me. They are people that I would have some type of a connection but not like a person that I would call to go to coffee or, you know, it's, they're not, I wouldn't say they're my friends necessarily, right? 

 08:46
But what I would end up doing was I would give them my personal cell phone number. And I would say, please, anytime you need me, call me, text me, this is my cell phone number. And they would be so appreciative and that's so generous. 

 09:06
Thank you so much. I appreciate that so much, right? And I felt so good about it until all of those wonderful families started contacting me whenever they needed anything after hours using my personal cell phone number. 

 09:23
And that has over the years, it's, you know, literally still a problem as of two weeks ago, you know, like it's something that I'm, I have given this number to many people. It started many years ago. 

 09:36
I've been just feeling very resentful about all these people contacting me. So when you're in that resentment, how does it feel for you? Like, how do you know it's resentment? Well, so interestingly, I was actually, what's been happening is I have been so resentful of that person. 

 09:53
Like I would get this text and often it would be when I was a few years ago, it would be like at my child's basketball game. I'd be at my child's basketball game. I'm trying to focus on my kid playing but the message comes in and I sort of feel this pull like, well, I need to respond to them. 

 10:10
And notoriously, I, missed then my child doing something and then I and I actually would sort of have this almost anger Towards that person who was messaging me. I was angered at them like kind of like, uh, why are they bothering me? 

 10:27
I sort of wasn't really recognizing my part in it at this point and being very resentful of that person the reason I wanted to have this conversation was because if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I totally understand what that feels like. 

 10:42
This is such a classic people-pleaser situation that starts out and might even come from a true place of generosity and a willingness to serve and to show up for your clients and Then over time you then experience it or we as people pleasers experience it as we're angry or frustrated like why are they calling me and we end up thinking that they are the ones who have to stop their behavior so that we can feel better. 

 11:19
Exactly. Absolutely. Before we go down the road of the story too much further, how do you think you ended up in the position of being the one to give them your phone number? Tell me a little bit about what do you think was driving that? 

 11:35
I think partly, I mean, I definitely do feel like there is a big piece of me that does want to be that helpful person. I remember having a small child. I remember all of the things that happen or your child gets sick at the last minute or you're out of town. 

 11:52
I do want to be that person that is helpful to them and I love that people would maybe rely on me or think of me when they need help. I do like that and I do wish that I could always accommodate that. 

 12:09
I love establishing that connection with my families. So there was a big part of me that gives that in a heartfelt way to say, I want to help you. So often the actions that we take that later set up the situations that are causing resentment do come from positive intentions and they also come from wanting to be liked. 

 12:38
Oh, absolutely. I think that I should have said that because you're right. I really, really do want those families to like me. I want them to think positively of me and praise me for being so helpful to them. 

 12:54
Right. Another way that people pleasing shows up is I want to be the one who can solve it for other people. I want to be the one who comes through in the moment of crisis or emergency. I really value being the person who can solve those kinds of problems for other people. 

 13:14
Absolutely. Does any of that feel familiar to you? Very much so. Yeah. Absolutely. And sometimes when that goes a little bit further down that track, it's like I'm willing to even ignore other sources of help that they might have. 

 13:30
I'm willing to really go above and beyond what I might normally do, just to make sure that they know that I am the person. Yes. Who can solve these things. Right. Yeah, because there are a lot of opportunities for them to be able to utilize without my cell phone number. 

 13:50
Yeah, I was giving that in that wanting to be that person for them. And undeniably, there are connections that are formed. There is a dopamine and a serotonin and all of those good, feel good connection, you know, hormones that help us really feel good about those decisions because they're calling me, they're relying on me. I'm the one who's, you know, showing up and helping and I'm such an important part of their family. And what I want to say is that none of that is bad or wrong. 

 14:26
It just started to produce other results in your life. Right. Negative results. Yeah. So you're sitting in a basketball game, right? And you miss a play or a shot because your attention is now born. Right. 

 14:42
Right. What other things were you starting to notice? I was, I mean, it was, of course, like happening when I was, it's sometimes when I say these things, it sounds silly because what I was going to say is I might be sitting on the couch watching TV with my husband and then get interrupted then. 

 14:59
So like should watching TV with my husband be more important than helping, you know, an acquaintance with their child. Like it feels so trivial to say that. And I feel bad saying that, but like that kind of thing was happening where it was just my own time, my own relax and recovery time that was getting interrupted by what was happening. 

 15:21
I love that you said that because what it shows is that you are still very much in the like figuring of this out, right? This isn't like a done deal for you yet. And so what I want to offer you to think about right now is one of the things that women are specifically programmed to believe is that our time is not actually our own. 

 15:42
It belongs to everybody else. It belongs to our husband. It belongs to our children. It belongs to whoever needs something from us. And we're programmed with this hierarchy of like other people's needs, no matter what they are, are more important than ours. 

 15:58
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And so when you're sitting on the couch, watching TV, which is a perfectly legitimate, right? It doesn't even matter if you're hiding in the bathroom eating chocolate and reading. 

 16:11
romance books, right? It's so often that I hear women denigrate whatever we want to do with our time, as if it has to be worthy, or it has to beat out these other, you know, really classically altruistic or giving situations that we've just been taught are more important than what we want to do. 

 16:34
Yeah, I love the way you said that, because that is exactly what happens to me, that I don't feel like the way I'm sending my free time would be worth it. That's right. You know, to sacrifice something else. 

 16:47
That's right. You know, it pops up all over the place, not just when you're trying to balance, you know, a work demand with a personal demand, but interpersonal relationships with spouses, like when do I choose what I want? 

 17:03
When do I go along with what my husband wants? When do I choose what my child wants over myself or when do I choose me? I think this is a point of tension. We don't ever fully get away from as long as we're in relationships with other people. 

 17:18
But the default, and this is what I invite everyone listening to just consider, is that the default is that everybody else's needs and wants and expectations are higher than ours. And that is what a good fill in the blank, wife, mother, nurse, PA, that's what a good woman does. 

 17:39
It feels like anything that is less than that, what do we call it? Selfish. Like if I'm sitting on the couch and I choose to not take a call from a patient and being selfish because I'm just watching TV. 

 17:57
Right. Exactly. That's where I'm at. I'm always like, why am I so annoyed by this? I'm literally watching TV, but I'm annoyed. Yes. Okay. And that's what I want to get to because I think in the conversation that we had, you know, during your session, I asked you the question, who are you blaming for them texting you? 

 18:24
Well, I was blaming them. You asked me that day what that resentment voice says. And it was like, why in the hell are you calling me after hours? You should know I gave you that number, but I didn't expect you to use it, especially not on a Monday night at eight o'clock. 

 18:49
I mean, what were you thinking? You know, like I'm putting this on my patient's face. that I gave my number to. Yes, because all I had you do was answer that question like, why are they calling? Yeah. 

 19:06
And you and you said like, you just made yourself the victim. Right. Right. And I can't believe it. But I never really looked at it like that. Like, I was the one that did that. It was me. I'm resentful of me, because I gave them that phone number. 

 19:24
And yet somehow I had turned it around. And I was mad at them for using this phone number and this generosity, this offer that I gave them. Yeah, I was putting my resentment in the wrong place. It is, Sara, it is so common. 

 19:38
And that's exactly why I wanted to have this conversation. A huge source of resentment is mistakenly blaming other people for decisions that we are responsible for. It is the way that it's sneaky, because people pleasers often find a lot of evidence for other people doing things they shouldn't do, right? 

 20:06
Because it is easy to feel like a victim. When you forget, I gave them that number. And especially when like, I can see this being true of me, I don't even know if you would think it was true of you. 

 20:19
But like, I gave you that number, because I just wanted you to think that I'm this generous, amazing person. I didn't want you to actually use the number. Exactly. I just wanted the perception. Yeah, it's spot on. 

 20:31
That's exactly right. And now that you're actually doing it, what I'm noticing is I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. And that comes from a disconnection, like all of that outward focusedness, what it deprives us of is a real ability to assess, how will I actually feel about that? 

 20:54
When they're calling me on a Monday night, am I actually going to like that? Because we're so caught up in wanting to be perceived a certain way, that we don't have enough brain space and connection to actually check in with ourselves and forecast, what is that going to be like when I'm getting a call during my kids basketball game? 

 21:14
What is it going to be like when it's happening when I'm on vacation? What is it going to be like? And we go with the action that we think will get us the praise and recognition that we want. Because we just don't have access to a self connected ability to forecast what it's actually going to be like. 

 21:34
Absolutely. Yes, that is exactly what happened. So oftentimes, when we are in the victim role, what seems even more frustrating about it is that our situation can only change if someone else makes a different choice. 

 21:54
And that's what sets up the powerlessness that fuels feeling resentful. Right. Because then I'm waiting for them to change. It makes me feel like, well, there's nothing I can do about this. I've given my number away. 

 22:10
People are using it. I am stuck feeling this way forever, because they're not going to change their action. That's right. That's right. I mean, because they're really enjoying having personal access to a physician's assistant, right? 

 22:25
Yes. And I want to point out that this doesn't just happen in our personal relationships or in our professional relationships. It can happen with systems. Like, I have often felt powerless and ragey and resentful of patriarchy and misogyny and racism and capitalism, right? 

 22:45
We give away our power to systems all the time when we think, I'm stuck. either doing this thing or in this position, believing this thing, in this situation until all of these forces outside of me change. 

 23:03
Correct. The difference is, with systems, you know, where you and I are not gonna single-handedly dismantle patriarchy, that is a bigger work that needs to be done by the collective, we can still find places of private action that we can take that will feel better. 

 23:24
And that is always how you get out of resentment. That's always how you get out of being the victim, is find a place where you can take some action. And so when I brought that up for you, what was the action that presented itself that you could take? 

 23:42
Yes, so you're so good at words and you helped me kind of come up with something that I could say to a family or maybe text a family. I sort of imagined myself maybe in a text scenario, although it could be in person as well, but it would look like, hi, so-and-so. 

 24:02
I wanted to let you know that I'm reaching out to the families that I have given my personal cell phone number to. When I did that, I thought I had more capacity to be helpful after hours than I actually am. 

 24:13
I am so happy to be part of your healthcare team and I look forward to continuing to care for your child. But if you have something after hours, could you please utilize express care or call Health Connections? 

 24:24
If you feel the need, you need to speak with a physician on call, thank you so much. Brilliant, can I draw your attention to one part? Yes, please. You just asked, could you please? Oh yeah, I did, didn't I? 

 24:38
Yeah, totally normal, right? Because why do you think you asked, could you please? Again, because I was trying to soften it, right? Like, make it easier for them to hear this. And Sara, there's nothing wrong with that in relationships that we care about, we can influence or attempt to influence how other people feel when we are making decisions that will disappoint them or changing the rules of the game that they've been used to. 

 25:10
I think it is part of what we can do in interpersonal human relationships. We can soften things. We can provide context. We don't always have to. And the only thing that I would invite you to look at is do you want to ask them to please, or is something different, more appropriate for what you want to accomplish? 

 25:33
Yeah, I like that because I really think it just needs to say, you know, when you need something after hours, please contact these options. Yeah, it's so common that we ask for permission to do things. 

 25:47
from, from people, especially when we know that they're going to be disappointed or that they might not like the changes that we're making. So there's nothing wrong with what you did. I just wonder when you think about the difference between, could you please and please use these resources that are provided to you? 

 26:07
How does, what's the difference that you feel? Well, you know, as you say this, it reminds me of something that you said in our session, when, when I would say, you know, do this instead of, could you please do this? 

 26:19
You know, if I say it more directly, there's nothing for them to agree or disagree with is what you said. And I really love that because unfortunately, if I say, could you please call this call health connections instead, then they can say, well, no, I, I could not do that. 

 26:38
I would rather call you where if I say, you know, I need you to call this number, they cannot agree or disagree with that. I mean, and they, there's nothing to agree or disagree with, right? Right. It's just a statement of this is how we did it. 

 26:54
That's not working for me anymore. And this is how we will be doing it moving forward. Yeah. I really like that because it just feels so much more definitive in what I need instead of asking them if they could do something for me. 

 27:07
That's right. That's right. And that is where the power is. That's the power that we're looking for in these situations that we just feel trapped in or stuck in. It's in asserting, this is what I need. 

 27:22
This is what has changed. And this is how it will be moving forward. And we can provide reasons or context. Like you said, I think you provided some really beautiful context. Like when I gave you the number, I thought I would have more capacity and I'm right. 

 27:40
I'm finding that I don't. So moving forward, this is what we will be doing because another option is stop calling me. You could just text people, stop calling me. Yeah, that's right. Or you're blocked, right? 

 27:55
And oftentimes when we are in relationships that we care about, where we want the relationship to continue and we want there to be as much as possible, some good feelings, we do opt for more reasons or for more context. 

 28:12
But I always love to remind, especially women, you don't have to. I saw an amazing press release, you and I recording this the Saturday before Inauguration, Michelle Obama, there was a CNN headline that just said “Michelle Obama will not be attending inauguration. 

 28:29
She provided no reason as to why. President Obama will attend.” That's it. Three sentences. Love it. And that does feel powerful. That does feel like she made a decision. She went forward with it. She didn't need to explain herself. 

 28:43
Yeah. Yeah, so there are situations in which the relationship matters and we do want to find ways to influence the connectedness and the friendship or the relationship and other times when we don't. I want to back up for just a second though because before you got to writing that statement, there were a couple other things that we had to go through. 

 29:07
Number one, you had to realize, okay, I thought at one point I wanted to be the person who would help after hours. I wanted genuinely to be that person, but now I am finding that I can't be that person and the person who's paying attention to my kid's basketball game and the person who is present with my husband on a Monday night watching a show. 

 29:37
Yeah, and in some ways it feels sort of disappointing maybe to myself to find that maybe I'm not the person who is so altruistic that I would say, I will do anything for anyone at any time. Maybe I believed that of myself at one point that I really was or am that person who would do anything for anybody at any time and so I'm maybe a little disappointed in myself to find that that's really maybe not who I am. 

 30:10
Yeah, that's so interesting because what I see possible for you is the belief of like when I am with my family, I am with them a hundred percent. Yeah, I love that. That's such a, that's a different, you know, spin, not necessarily spin on this, but it's just a focus on a different identity and how deeply we are programmed to be women who will give and give and give and give and give and our identity gets so tied up and so connected. 

 30:44
I am a person who will ignore my family for you. I will ignore my personal health for you. I will ignore my other things I want to be doing so I can show up and be at service. You're so right in that I'm having to sacrifice all those other things that are important to me, maybe even more important to me. 

 31:05
My family is the most important thing to me. My personal health is so important to me. So maybe I do have to choose those things over. I mean, obviously that's why I feel this way, right? Because I want to choose those things that are really at the top of my list instead of choosing patient families who do have other options than just me. 

 31:31
How interesting would it have been for you and I, Sara, because we're about the same age. If someone had sat us down and said, listen, Sara, there's going to be a lot of people. throughout your life. 

 31:42
They're all gonna want and need things from you and they're good people. And you're gonna want to give to them. You're gonna choose a profession where you are profoundly helpful to a lot of people. You're gonna marry a man you love and want to spend time with. 

 31:57
You're gonna have children that just fill you with joy and you are never going to be able to please all of them at once. It's impossible. In fact, you are not meant to live a life where you are pleasing everyone at once. 

 32:12
What you are meant to do is pick and choose and it will change over time. I love that. What a relief that would have been, right? Yeah. What a relief. Because we live this lie that it is somehow possible if we just juggle more, if we just keep paddling faster, if we just keep showing up and doing more that we can actually keep everybody pleased. 

 32:38
Yeah. But it was never meant to be that way. It's so true. Literally impossible. I need to sit her down and tell her this. You know what? If I could, it's honestly the message I wish all young women could hear and that the thing that we'll decide how they pick and choose is them. 

 33:00
What matters to them. And that self connection that you can develop where you know who you are, what you want, what matters to you is the most reliable compass, the most reliable information you will ever get and people will misunderstand it. 

 33:19
They won't, because they won't have access to it. And your job is to protect that self connection and let them do what they are going to do with that information. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And just be bold enough to ask for what you really need. 

 33:38
That's right, because that's all you can do. So you had to get to the point like before you could write those fantastic words of how you're going to let people know about this change. You had to see the tension between okay, this was who I wanted to be the person who would take after hours calls. 

 33:55
And yet now I'm realizing I don't want to be that person because I want to be the person who shows up in full presence, full attention for my family. Yes. Then you had to find the words to be able to put the change into context and into sentences for people to understand. 

 34:15
And then you have to deal with the discomfort. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm still in this. Yeah. Tell me. I have not. Our session was, was it two weeks ago, Sara? I think it was two weeks. Not even just this last week. 

 34:29
Okay. Last week. And yeah, that's exactly right. So I have the words, I have the desire. I actually bumped into one of these families that would be on my list to give this little pep talk to. And I think the thing I'm struggling with the most right now is just that I'm going to keep bumping into these families. 

 34:51
These are people that are acquaintances of mine. And so I feel really good about what I want to say. And I really do want to say it and do it and put it out there because I think that I would feel such relief. 

 35:03
But then I'm also worried about the discomfort that I'm going to feel when I bump into them again. And I'm still working through what that looks like. Yeah. And that is very real. And I never minimize we as women do this a lot. 

 35:18
We're like, it's so silly. I should just be able to say the words and but it's not silly. Because let me give you a little bit of context for how I see this discomfort. It is not the 2025 Sara, who has a fully functioning brain and is an adult, who's the one who's actually worried about this. 

 35:43
It's little Sara who's like, I just, I need to know that I'm safe and that I belong because I'm giving because I know how to make other people happy. Yes. Absolutely. That's true. Because I still thrive on that too. 

 35:58
Yeah. She is the one who's like, I don't know that this is a good idea. They're going to be mad. What if they don't like us anymore? Like what if you focus your attention on what she might say for just a second, what is she worried about? 

 36:14
Yeah, I think she is worried about you're going to see these people all the time and they're not going to like you anymore. And they're going to tell their friends that you told them they can't call you anymore. 

 36:28
And you're not going to, you're not going to be their favorite anymore. And yeah, I'm just gonna be, I feel like little Sara's gonna be sad about maybe losing that relationship and feeling embarrassed about losing it. 

 36:42
Yeah, yeah, beautifully said. So here is what your work is to comfort and reassure her that we're making this decision for reasons that we really, really like. Yeah, like it's important to us to be there for the game, for the show, for the family time. 

 37:06
And I know you're so worried, but guess what? You don't have to handle that worry because I'm here and I'm an adult and I know that we can just feel whatever we need to feel. This is gonna feel uncomfortable and I'm so proud of you for being willing to feel this uncomfortable and I'm gonna feel it right here with you. 

 37:29
I love that. That's awesome. How might that be for you? Those words, those are those are perfect, because that is what I would need is the comfort that I'm going to get through it. It's going to be okay. 

 37:44
You know, the worst case scenario, even if it happened, I can still get through that too. Yeah, but I think that those would be great words to comfort myself with. So often, we misunderstand our discomfort, and we minimize it. 

 38:01
I know I have said this to myself, I'm a 51 year old woman, what the fuck is my problem? Why can't I just say, no, I will not be doing this anymore. But there's a part of me that is terrified and panicked about what will happen. 

 38:14
And I just have to always remember, that is little that's like seven or eight year old Sara who just really wants to know, do you like me? Do you accept me? Am I okay here with you? Are you going to get mad at me? 

 38:28
If I show you what I want and need, are you going to turn on me? Right. And I have to show up for her and say, you know what, maybe they might. But I'm here for you. And it doesn't matter what they do. 

 38:46
I don't think they will. But even if that worst, like you said, the worst case scenario happens, I am here for you. And we are doing this because you matter. Yeah. What you want matters, what you need matters. 

 39:00
Your downtime matters. You're eating chocolate and reading romance novels, which might be autobiographical. It matters, right? Yeah, it does. It really matters. Yeah. You said something in our session also that I think about often you said, I'm going to get the words wrong, but it was like, I'm going to experience discomfort either way, right? 

 39:26
I'm going to either have the discomfort of seeing this family out and about, or I'm going to have the discomfort of continuing to be resentful and upset that I'm not saying what I need to say. That is right. 

 39:42
That is right. I'm so glad you brought that up again, because again, so often as women, we are just in perpetual discomfort and we're just used to it. Totally used to it. But you're right. It is uncomfortable to be getting a call on Monday night, right? 

 39:56
Right. And it's uncomfortable to send this message and say, from now on, please use our after hours care as it's set up as I will no longer be available for these calls. Yes. But there's only one of those discomforts that actually moves us in the direction that we want to be going, of more freedom, less resentment, and more actual power. 

 40:24
Absolutely. Which is why I find this work just absolutely essential because there are circumstances that we will never control, right? There are things happening all over the planet right now that have hundreds of thousands, millions of people in the grasp of situations they have zero control over. 

 40:44
And the heartbreaking thing is when we have power to make different decisions and we don't because of the way we have just been taught to think. Yeah. Yeah. So your job is to take care of you to decide how, what words you want to use to influence the relationship with either like reasons or context. 

 41:12
Sometimes we do apologize. Like I know that I have apologized to people in the past where I'm like, listen, I know that I've been the person who's done this for a long time. And I apologize that this is going to seem sudden or maybe not what you want, but it's not what I'm able to do moving forward. 

 41:29
I love that. That's what your job is. And then their job is to deal with their discomfort, to ask questions, to get any clarification that they want. But we are so programmed to try and take care of other people's discomfort too. 

 41:46
That just becomes another way that we keep ourselves in these victim roles where we have to fix it for other people as well. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to be there. I know. I know. And so I'm so grateful that you were willing to have this talk with me today because it is so common that we blame other people for the resentment that we're feeling when there we have a lot of power over it. 

 42:14
Yeah. I never really recognized that. I have two things I want to tell you. The first one I want to say to everybody who's listening to this is that if your provider has given you their personal cell phone number, they may very well be that provider that legitimately wants you to contact them. 

 42:37
So I just don't want anybody to feel like they've inconvenienced their provider or something. I mean, this is my own story. And so anyway, if, you know, have that conversation with your provider, uh, if they've given, given you your, their cell phone number. 

 42:51
Um, but the other thing I wanted to tell you, Sara, is just how amazing this session was for me. This was a, the one, the one time consult and I almost canceled it. I really felt like maybe I was going to be wasting your time. 

 43:08
I did. I just didn't know if, if this was going to be something that I didn't even really know what we were going to work through at the moment, to be honest with you. And this has been really transformative for me, like literally life changing for me to recognize what I have done to understand like where my resentment was directed and that it was actually me who has the power to change that. And I just, I love your work and I just really, really appreciate your time and expertise and that we did this. I'm so grateful that you said that because one of the things that I think women do were like, I have to have a really important problem or a really important thing to say to either contact Sara or ask her a question. 

 43:57
No, right? I do love to volunteer time to be helpful in this people pleasing space. I also, if someone wants to continue to work with me in a way that provides them the structure and the skills and the ongoing coaching and mentorship, I definitely want you to know about that. 

 44:22
But when someone signs up for a consult, the purpose is to get a little bit of perspective, just to wiggle one little thing that can make a difference and then to give you some information about what it's like if we choose to continue to work together. 

 44:39
But what I also loved and why I wanted to have this conversation with you is that it was one of those transformative conversations that are so easy to have. If you as a person decide like, hey, this problem is worth my time and it's worth getting some attention on because I'm worth solving this problem that just feels so terrible and like I'm stuck in it. 

 45:05
I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time today. Is there anything else you wanted to add as we wrap up? I think that that really covers it. I just appreciate you so much and what you do. 

 45:17
I'm like racing through your podcast episodes. Like everything's just so incredible. Thank you. I'm so glad. And if for you, if you have been listening and this has shifted some of your perception about resentment, that is what we wanted to do. 

 45:33
If you're interested in having one of these conversations for yourself, the link to sign up for a consult is in the show notes and I would love to talk to you. Have a great week and I will see you next week for our next episode.